If you have mental health problems that stop you from doing things do you get sick of people saying they can’t do things because of their mental health.

[Toothiehurtie]

No trolling genuinely wondering. There are kids in my kids classes at school who are starting to get attention for mental health issues and there are more kids than not now with a reason why they need to be treated differently tk the majority to the point where the kids doing what they are supposed to be doing are in the minority. If you’re the one who normally gets an allowance for your mental health does it piss you off when it’s allowed for everyone or do you feel like it’s great that mental health is being acknowledged. The example I’m thinking of is a kid at school who was allowed not to wear school shoes and now most of the class wear trainers and the whatsapp grouo mums are saying their kids are much happier if they get to wear what they want, and now school are clamping back. Not trolling not fishing just interested if you or your kid gets treated differently to everyone else and allowances are made fo you then does it ruin it for you if lots of people get it too

@JustOneMoreStep

Pre- pandemic, 47% of the school I worked in had some sort of additional provision for GCSE examinations. 47%. I'm sure it will be worse now examinations are back post-pandemic.

Which surely indicates that their is an issue with the exam system if we have nearly half of pupils in one school who need extra provision to be able to sit the exams then it’s the system that’s wrong and is letting them down in the first place surely?

I’ve had quite bad mental health issues all my life. Spent 27 years on medication. Struggle to function without it.

I think in part it’s due to growing awareness. I find people taking a ‘mental health day’ off sick a bit suspicious. I’ve never had one mental health day absence it doesn’t happen for a day.

I think it’s important that kids are diagnosed. Understanding if childhood brain development has increased hugely over the last 20 years.

A few things here are spot on

1. Yes the policies and procedures in a lot of schools need adjusting and honestly in my school there are no negative consequences at all, just conversations
2. Which hardly ever happen because staff absence from covid has decimated the slt times they could normally have tried to address some of the issues as they are also in class and can't - after school is too late
3. When I talk about accommodations/diagnosis this is a big range from very easily adaptable dyslexia to extreme ASD/enhanced provision, so it's not all crazy all the time but those are some real examples my class has to deal with
4. Yes sometimes i am guilty of placing a good girl next to the most extreme child because no-one else can deal with the behaviour (see point 2) it sucks.
5. The example of alternative provision for gcse is scary and I totally believe it - how can schools actually staff this?

6 I don't think parents realise/have any idea how many children have additional needs and accommodations in class due to gdpr and also no parents actually in school the last two years to see some of the stuff actually going on!

And yes, money is at the heart of this... More staff, more qualified staff.... And special breakout rooms and better play equipment and spaces and better cooked lunches, etc etc etc which I can't see happening anytime soon.

You're right, but it's so pervasive in state primary schools, well behaved girls are sat next to naughty boys all the time. It makes girls think they are responsible for moderating others' behaviour.

I'm so annoyed this is still going on, it used to happen to me all the time in primary school (25 odd years ago). I was quiet and shy and could have done with some help making friends with the other girls but I never remember getting to sit with them for group work.

I’m seeing this more and more regarding access provisions at places like concerts and theme parks.

Rightfully access has been made easier for people and children to do things that 10 years ago would be impossible. Unfortunately though some people see the words ‘free carer’ , ‘discounted tickets’ and ‘queue jump’ and suddenly they or their child’s issue is so bad that they require access to the scheme, despite not requiring any assistance or support in daily life.
The worst I heard was people ‘renting’ disabled people as tour guides for queue jumping at DisneyWorld, prompting a change to access provision. as they have just made fast passes chargeable, I’m expecting a tightening of accommodation for those of us with disabilities again shortly, making life harder yet again. The amount of people who say that they are unable to queue due to anxiety and then state that they’re planning to go to a theme park on Christmas Day or Easter which are notoriously busy is unbelievable .

Theunamedcat just because the other pupil is academically able doesn’t mean his needs are any less “genuine” than your DC’s needs. You say the school didn’t need to do “that” (unsure exactly what ‘that’ is?) because “his mum was doing it all” but you could just have easily applied for an EHCP yourself you didn’t need school to do that.

There was no point in assessment with out the education psychology report which they refused to apply for and I didn't have the money for

They didn't need to stop focusing on other children to concentrate on telling his mum daily at the door how poor his behaviour had been that day and how she needed to sort it out, she was, she got a Dr's appointment expedited a paediatrics appointment got him on medication adjusted his levels etc they tried telling me they couldn't help my child because they were helping hers (only so much funding) my sons teacher (different class to the other child) went to bat for my son pushed for assessment the school then chose NOT to act on the findings and by the time they did they needed to asses again we had a change of senco suddenly my son is getting help suddenly BOTH my sons are getting help the old senco didn't like me on a personal level and made it known she didn't but I never thought she would hold back my child because of it I honestly believed it was "funding" related

@Fishpondinthegarden

I think the biggest problem is that some teachers have listened to mental health snake oil people and therefore children have confused ‘anxiety’ with ‘anything that might make someone anxious.’

They aren’t the same thing.

This is exactly what my DH says.

I'm a primary teacher and so much of my time and resources is going on MH and emotional needs now.

I have children who also behave badly due to poor home situations and have to be treated differently as a result. Other children notice this and claim they're getting special treatment and we 'always take his side'.

The problem is that schools are picking up the pieces of the pandemic with lots of children, and having to deal with MH issues as the wider/outside support just isn't available or there's a massive waiting list. We have to spend an entire afternoon supporting MH instead of supporting children who genuinely need help academically.

It's one of the reasons I've considered leaving, because there's just too many plates to spin now and parents are noticing and complaining. I just want to teach, but I feel like a firefighter most days instead and teaching has almost taken a back seat.

Theunamedcat You didn’t need an EP report to apply for an EHCP. One is part of the EHCNA.

Also just to point out its not actually well known that you can apply yourself it was only while casually talking to someone (who works for sendiss) just in general conversation about it all she said "gosh I would have applied myself" I said what? What do you mean applied myself the school needs to do that surely? She said no you can do it yourself I literally had no idea

Ds is academically ‘able’

He also has a whole host of different diagnosises which even though he is academically able impact his ability to access education. He has an ehcp which states full time 1-1. He got this because it’s what he needs and because I fought tooth and nail to get it.

Now parents and schools shouldn’t have to fight tooth and nail for someone to get the provisions they need but if they have them then they really do need them

I needed evidence, evidence I did not have at the time even the ILP was withheld from me by the senco she said I will get you a copy and never did I was asked to sign it every parents evening but never given a copy I managed a picture of it one time in nursery she sent out a year group "reminder" phones were not allowed on in the school she really REALLY didn't like me

@EmeraldShamrock1

That is the worry, the issues never really get sorted out or there is not appropriate support.

Anyway nobody wants to think of their child/brother/sister coming to that end. It happens more than anybody realises.

Everything needs more funding. In schools it's always been the case that the people who cause the most issues, normally by being violent or disruptive get the help. That's until theyre an adult anyway then it's prison or dead if they end up on drugs.

Not sure why I'm even getting involved to be fair. Highly emotive topic. No it does not piss me off when I see other people getting the same reasonable adjustment as my children. I feel sad that school is so difficult for many children that you are seeing it like this.

OP I hope you gain some understanding through this thread.

@Squeakywheels

Loving all these armchair experts with there vast array (not) of medical qualifications and experience, stating their knowledgeable opinions on 'too many diagnoses'.

Yep. Loving the lazy parents who spend more time looking for a diagnosis to get extra help and money to parent their kids and ruin the chances of the other quiet kinds. I'm really fed up with the 'my child has ASD, ADHD,' blah blah blah brigade when their child has just hurt another child and trampled all over their right to an education. On the other hand there are some genuine cases where I completely support additional help being available but seen far too many playing the system and other kids paying the price.

@Squeakywheels it's depressing that there are so many "armchair experts" both on this thread and working at schools. So many children being judged for needing help.

cocktailclub would you like your child to have my child's disability. Happy to donate it to them so you can get all the lovely freebies that go with it.
All these terrible lazy parents fighting for support for their child.

CAMHS and EP services are so hard to access that if the accommodations have come through them I think they need to be respected and schools should have a duty to provide. If 17/29 children have accommodations were have those recommendations actually come from? I’m pretty sure they haven’t all seen EP/ CAMHS?

@Squeakywheels

cocktailclub would you like your child to have my child's disability. Happy to donate it to them so you can get all the lovely freebies that go with it. All these terrible lazy parents fighting for support for their child.

No I wouldn't. I'd like my child to have equal opportunity to a stress free education and access to teaching staff. I would like my child to not have been worried about being punched or hit by a chair the poor child with ADHD had thrown when he didn't get his own way. I would like my child to have had a safe environment. If a child's disability makes them ruin others chances in life than they should be supported separately. If they are being naughty but the parents say it's due to a MH problem or additional needs and they can't be held to account for their behaviour I don't think that's fair.

Do accommodations from professionals ever say that children should be allowed to throw chairs/ hit others/ swear at other pupils?

A lot of parents of children who cannot cope with a mainstream school environment would love their child to not be in that environment. Unfortunately the fault there lies with a society that doesn't want to fund the correct provision because they vote for a government that won't.

It is in the benefit of every child in the class that children with additional needs are properly supported.

In year 2 Ds was the child who would lash out. It got worse in year 3. Then his ehcp was adapted to provide him with full time 1-1 and other adjustments. He is now in year 7 and has 90% less outbursts and when he does the 1-1 knows how to descalate. His needs are met so the needs of others in the class aren’t being disrupted.

It is in the benefit of every child in the class that children with additional needs are properly supported.

^This. And where it doesn’t happen all children are failed.

Theunamedcat Your ‘problem’ was with the school, not the other child, as you acknowledge it wasn’t a funding issue.

Parents with a child with SEN should research the law and not rely on others, especially LAs and schools who often act unlawfully, to tell them. IPSEA, SOSSEN, the SENCOP and many other resources make it clear parents can apply themselves.

The threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low. Evidence can come in many forms, including SALT. Parents can also make a formal SAR to school. If parents apply and are refused there are charities e.g. Parents in Need who can help with assessments if parents can’t fund them. There’s also Legal Aid if eligible.

There is no diagnosed illness that puts inappropriate language and knowledge into a child’s head - that’s all on the family. And I’m not talking about the odd bit of frustration meaning a kid learns how to say fuck. If a primary age child is calling someone a fucking fat cunt their primary problem is their home environment.

And it’s making excuses for and having to deal with issues caused by terrible parenting that is derailing the help for the children who need it and fuelling the frustration that many other parents feel.

@Camomila

You're right, but it's so pervasive in state primary schools, well behaved girls are sat next to naughty boys all the time. It makes girls think they are responsible for moderating others' behaviour.

I'm so annoyed this is still going on, it used to happen to me all the time in primary school (25 odd years ago). I was quiet and shy and could have done with some help making friends with the other girls but I never remember getting to sit with them for group work.

Yeah, this definitely happened to me 15 years ago. I was a well-behaved girl with (admittedly then undiagnosed) autism and ADHD and where there were no teaching assistants in a class I was expected to cajole the disruptive boys who bullied me into doing their work

@Toothiehurtie I am indeed a teacher, specifically a maths and stats teacher!