If you have mental health problems that stop you from doing things do you get sick of people saying they can’t do things because of their mental health.

[Toothiehurtie]

No trolling genuinely wondering. There are kids in my kids classes at school who are starting to get attention for mental health issues and there are more kids than not now with a reason why they need to be treated differently tk the majority to the point where the kids doing what they are supposed to be doing are in the minority. If you’re the one who normally gets an allowance for your mental health does it piss you off when it’s allowed for everyone or do you feel like it’s great that mental health is being acknowledged. The example I’m thinking of is a kid at school who was allowed not to wear school shoes and now most of the class wear trainers and the whatsapp grouo mums are saying their kids are much happier if they get to wear what they want, and now school are clamping back. Not trolling not fishing just interested if you or your kid gets treated differently to everyone else and allowances are made fo you then does it ruin it for you if lots of people get it too

I was prepared to not agree with what you wrote OP but I'm a primary teacher you are basically describing my class.
So many (17) out of 29 have some kind of official diagnosis/accommodation etc and it's very hard to keep track. Some appalling behaviour is swept away under the "additional needs" umbrella - calling peers fat cunts, punching in the face, telling teachers to fuck off, telling a girl she's a fucking fat (country name here) and this is year 6. No consequences, just "restorative conversions".

Other children are scared and parents complain but very little done.

The world's collide when both children have additional needs and generally it's the scariest parents who tend to get their way as they threaten to make formal complaints etc etc.

I suspect quite a few are questionable labels to be honest but to be fair I guess the last two years have made everyone's mental health worse.... But where do we draw a line- what makes one person's experience deemed worse than others?

It's exhausting. And sad.

Not trolling not fishing just interested if you or your kid gets treated differently to everyone else and allowances are made fo you then does it ruin it for you if lots of people get it too

'Ruin' what? Surely if your child has an additional need, it doesn't matter what the other kids are doing as long as your child's needs are being met?

@Penyu

I was prepared to not agree with what you wrote OP but I'm a primary teacher you are basically describing my class. So many (17) out of 29 have some kind of official diagnosis/accommodation etc and it's very hard to keep track. Some appalling behaviour is swept away under the "additional needs" umbrella - calling peers fat cunts, punching in the face, telling teachers to fuck off, telling a girl she's a fucking fat (country name here) and this is year 6. No consequences, just "restorative conversions".

Other children are scared and parents complain but very little done.

The world's collide when both children have additional needs and generally it's the scariest parents who tend to get their way as they threaten to make formal complaints etc etc.

I suspect quite a few are questionable labels to be honest but to be fair I guess the last two years have made everyone's mental health worse.... But where do we draw a line- what makes one person's experience deemed worse than others?

It's exhausting. And sad.

I'm impressed any have had a diagnoses with the shit show that is cahms so fair play if so many have!

OP in general the misuse of labels which ends up diluting the disorder annoy me- like omg I'm so ocd I just love cleaning, confusing feeling anxious ( a normal human emotion) with anxiety (can be debilitating) etc; but as long as your child is getting the support they need does it matter too much? Appreciate the somewhat flippant way some cite a disorder to try and get their child something is horrible but I imagine that's a teeny tiny percentage.

Yes, to be honest it does. I have had psychiatric disorders since the age of 7, I had my first breakdown at 15, a three month hospital stay at 25 and I've had therapy on and off for 18 years now. I haven't met most of the milestones of adulthood (I'm 30-something, academic but couldn't finish my degree; haven't had a proper longer term relationship, I can't pop into supermarkets or walk through town, I can't drive etc. etc). However I think that the issue in the situation that you describe is that the rule has been generalised- so for example the pupil who needed to wear trainers in the first instance, probably really did need to wear them but there was no need for other pupils to be allowed the same allowance, when it was really just an exemption. I do remember one of my friends at uni objecting to my coursework extensions when she really didn't have a clue about the severity of my conditions or about how my conditions affected my ability to study so I do think that provided a pupil/student/employee has sufficient medical evidence for an adjustment or exemption, it is important for that adjustment to be allowed regardless of whether that seems unfair to other healthy students/colleagues.

I think it's good that the kids can wear trainers if it makes them happy. Let's face it, most people (especially kids) are happier when they're comfortable and it they're happier, it makes for a better learning environment.

If most of the class are wearing trainers, it shows the rule was unnecessary in the first place really.

I don't understand your point. Surely what matters is that you (or your child) have the accommodations you need. Accommodations being granted to others doesn't take them away from you.

In the trainers example you give, where it appears that the children felt happier in trainers whether or not there was a medically diagnosed need for accommodation - well, surely it's a common sense decision to let them wear trainers if they want to? What harm can it do if the whole class is allowed to wear trainers?

You post wasn’t what I expected from the title.

Adjustments given to those who don’t actually need them? Who cares! As long as you get them, it’s no disadvantage to you who else does.

But what I thought you meant from your - the dilution described by @Papayamya - I absolutely think this is an issue.

I don't know, this sounds awfully like policing who is justified in having accommodations or not

Sorry, but that's not on. Just because you might not 'see' the reason for the accommodation does not give anyone the right to asset it is unnecessary.

Lots of disabilities and health conditions can be invisible in public contexts. Doesn't mean the child (or adult) is on a fair and level playing field without the accommodation.

• to assert, not asset

About the ruining I guess I mean if child a struggles in a large size class and is taken out to a much smaller class for an hour a week to work on self esteem and then eventually 18 of the thirt kids in a class are being taken out of the standard lesson to go to the smaller glass it isn’t smaller any more and it’s meant that the people who really needed it in the first place haven’t got it anymore

I don't understand your point. Surely what matters is that you (or your child) have the accommodations you need. Accommodations being granted to others doesn't take them away from you.

Yes it does. That’s the Ops point.

Some accommodations like wearing trainers still work if everyone gets to do them and I think, why not?

Other stuff, like access to SEN teaching, there is only a certain amount of the teacher's time to go around, and I do think there should be a bit of gatekeeping on that.

It's difficult though. A statement of SEN doesn't just depend on the severity of the need, it also depends on how insistent parents and teachers are about getting a diagnosis. My daughter had a diagnosis of ADHD but there are two kids in her class who have more obvious symptoms and no diagnosis AFAIK. So if the teacher has a bit of discretion about how to arrange these things, that's probably not a bad thing. It would be sad to think that there are kids in school with SEN but no diagnosis getting no help because there's only enough resources for the kids with the diagnoses. One of the boys in my DD's class, his mum was like "oh he's not cut out for school, just like me" - so it could be that the undiagnosed ADHD that messed up her education is also going to be responsible for ruining her boy's education. I did try and argue with her but she wasn't having it, and I understand why as well - IDK what it's like in the UK but where we are here in Germany you get accused of all sorts of neglect and stupidity before they eventually agree to assess your kid for anything.

@Penyu

I was prepared to not agree with what you wrote OP but I'm a primary teacher you are basically describing my class. So many (17) out of 29 have some kind of official diagnosis/accommodation etc and it's very hard to keep track. Some appalling behaviour is swept away under the "additional needs" umbrella - calling peers fat cunts, punching in the face, telling teachers to fuck off, telling a girl she's a fucking fat (country name here) and this is year 6. No consequences, just "restorative conversions".

Other children are scared and parents complain but very little done.

The world's collide when both children have additional needs and generally it's the scariest parents who tend to get their way as they threaten to make formal complaints etc etc.

I suspect quite a few are questionable labels to be honest but to be fair I guess the last two years have made everyone's mental health worse.... But where do we draw a line- what makes one person's experience deemed worse than others?

It's exhausting. And sad.

Oh you poor thing. I could not be dealing with this at all. What a frustrating situation to be in.

Something has gone wrong in society and the way we raise our children. When I was growing up, there would always be a couple of kids in each class who had additional needs - dyslexia, etc. But 17/29? And no consequences for behaving and speaking in such a manner? We aren't doing most of these children any favours.

Yes its massively fucked up my daughter was bullied the school wouldn't deal with it because the bully was not in a great home environment her dad was crap and her mum struggled my daughter was under cahms for self harm I was back and forth to the school so often it was ridiculous then one day my daughter snapped and reacted the school threatened to call the police on her they were probably expecting and apology they were not expecting me to march my ass down there remove her that day and within a month i had removed her from the school some teachers were appalled with how we were treated the child was directly responsible for 5/7 children leaving the school

@Toothiehurtie

About the ruining I guess I mean if child a struggles in a large size class and is taken out to a much smaller class for an hour a week to work on self esteem and then eventually 18 of the thirt kids in a class are being taken out of the standard lesson to go to the smaller glass it isn’t smaller any more and it’s meant that the people who really needed it in the first place haven’t got it anymore

But the point of them being taken out isn't "special attention" it's "to work on self esteem".

So why does it matter if it's 2 of them or 18?

Depends on the accommodation.

The trainers for example. Ds has an autism diagnosis. Due to sensory issue he wears a slight different uniform. Softer trousers for example and trainers. Other kids wearing trainers do not take away from him. They actually make it better as ds feels more comfortable nor being the only one.

Some accommodations would be impacted if lots of people get them. But I think its a slippery slope when people start assuming other people are lying about their/their kids mental health for perks. There should be enough provision for all.

I, imagine it would be very painful for you or the child if someone accused them of faking it. Its beat not to start assuming it of others.

MH was always predicted to be an issue post pandemic and I do believe that there's often rush to label a child with MH issues. Rather than a child feeling anxious, they are labelled with anxiety (by parents and school and GP) too quickly as an example. But I wouldn't start assuming individuals were making it up.

Once you're at a stage where more than half a population have "additional needs", you can't really say those needs are "additional" any more, they're just the norm. And then the people with the more significant additional needs can get lost.

I think a much bigger issue is people not getting the support they need because resources are so stretched.

"Not trolling not fishing just interested if you or your kid gets treated differently to everyone else and allowances are made fo you then does it ruin it for you if lots of people get it too"

No.
My child has several disabilities as does every other child in his school. It makes no difference to him what support/ accommodations any other child gets.

@cocktailclub

Sadly I think some diagnosis now of ADHD are just lazy parenting and badly behaved kids. Not all but I do think some. So many excuses made for additional needs but why should these kids be able to suck up all the teachers time and scare other kids who suffer. They need to rein back on the criteria for diagnosis, offer more parenting courses and save a diagnosis for actual additional needs not bad behaviour due to diet, parents not setting boundaries or bed times, constant tv watching or screen time etc. Probably be flamed for this but really, what's behind all these needs?

This is the last thing we need if I'm honest I have a child who has adhd and autism he hasn't been able to "get a diagnosis" for the six years I've been trying to get him seen if he punched or kicked a teacher he would but he daydreams his way through school life because his adhd is "innatentive" what we need to do is switch the narrative and accept these children exist and stop prioritising violent children all through primary we had a violent child bully him the bully was accommodated everytime ds was not because he lives in his own world high school, the bully was told no probably for the first time in his life so he left the school tried another got told "no" again ended up at the PRU he is now on his third high school and he is only year 8 he has no special needs he is just violent and aggressive there were reports of a child with a knife at the park its him banned from the local shop again him his mum has been unable and unwilling to deal with him since he was small but my child has been pushed aside for him and all the parenting classes in the world won't help my child they didn't help him either but telling him no sooner might have except no-one in authority ever did

cocktailclub is showing their ignorance of the hoops parents have to just through in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Loving all these armchair experts with there vast array (not) of medical qualifications and experience, stating their knowledgeable opinions on 'too many diagnoses'.

In the meantime genuine children with genuine difficulties get overlooked even my youngest he has always had difficulties had SALT involved from before he was two on school sen register from nursery was set aside to support a child academically brighter but who had outbursts and needed to be medicated the school didn't need to do that his mum was doing it all but the ehcp for my child was put off for 12 months due to this then he got caught up in the pandemic he never has seen a paediatrician despite being referred several times the last time he was referred they refused saying it sounded more like autism than adhd and to re refer under umbrella to clarify its the same paediatrician same clinic time just opposite week and it's taken another 12 months for him to be accepted on the umbrella pathway and its fucking ridiculous

It’s a highly complex issues. I have seen friends of mine put up with awful behaviour - gambling, cheating, obsessive behaviour under the guise of mental health in their partners and any attempt to deal with it sometimes means that their needs are not being heard.

One friend he husband gambled behind her back thousands of pounds of their money - he was diagnosed with ADHD and their counsellor and friends said it was the ADHD and not ‘him’. Another has been diagnosed with mental health issues that she has to ‘accept’as his anxiety of meeting his needs of knowing where she is at all times and he doesn’t like being left. Needs are great but when they adversely affect the other person when do you draw a line over consent and the other persons right.