Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

Hope do you define biological woman? The woman mentioned in the article above is chromosomally male, but only discovered that when she was pregnant.

In general terms, most people are xx or xy, and the way their body develops fits in with that. But, as with everything, life is not that simple.

@HomeHomeInTheRange

I think it is great that Lia T is accepted as a woman and should not be subject to abuse or exclusion for being Trans.

Let her wear a swimming costume instead of trunks, tuck long hair into a swim cap, wear waterproof mascara.,. and compete against swimmers of her physical class.

And if any of those swimmers objects or harasses her in the changing room then he should have his place in the team and the college withdrawn for being transphobic.

Seems fair to me.

He’s not accepted as a woman! Clearly!

And it shouldn’t be about accepting being a woman, competitors in women’s sports should be women!

Fuck transphobia.

People objecting to this do not have a phobia of cheating men.

Or three categories
Ie.
Male - biologically male
Women - biologically female
Open - open to male and female

@WeCouldBeSpearows

That article is overly simplistic and I doubt anyone is going to bother reading it unless you tell them what killer argument that Lia is a woman they will find in it, so it's a waste of time plopping down links.

There are only two sexes.

A small number of people have a variation of development along one pathway or the other, known as a difference of sexual development (DSD). It can be misleading but they're still male or female. Each DSD can occur only along one pathway or the other.

And it's got fuck all to do with being trans.

If sex is such a nebulous concept, how did we know which class Lia wanted to enter?

@HomeHomeInTheRange

Or perhaps we need to wait for a woman to be injured or killed in contact sport competing against a biological male

Google Tamikka Brents, a martial arts competitor who had her orbital bone (skull round the eye) smashed fighting Transwomen Fallon Fox.

She had not been informed before the fight that her opponent was Trans

Fallom Fox is a vile misogynistic cheat!

There are plenty of men who have offered him out, a fair fight - silence!

I hope he gets his, I really do. What he did to his female opponent 😔

Thankfully, the majority of people on here are completely sane.

People who have been through make puberty have bigger denser bones which support bigger muscles. They have more blood. Their centre of gravity is in a different place. All sorts of differences that affect sporting performance.

Exactly. Regardless of testosterone levels there will be physical differences that are not changed with medication - broader shoulders, larger lung capacity, bigger feet would all be an advantage in swimming.

'Cis' is nonsense.

The category of women contains women only. Women are not a subset of themselves.

@Quincythequince

Read the post again and see if you can detect the implicit

Hope do you define biological woman? The woman mentioned in the article above is chromosomally male, but only discovered that when she was pregnant.

It's mosaicism. This one off case has two types of DNA. Sex is about gametes, she has a mostly female reproductive system and ovaries and can produce female gametes, or she would not be able to conceive. So she is female. No one has ever been found to produce both.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]@WeCouldBeSpearows

That article is overly simplistic and I doubt anyone is going to bother reading it unless you tell them what killer argument that Lia is a woman they will find in it, so it's a waste of time plopping down links.[/quote]
Whatever. I accidentally hit the post button, and made a follow up post about it. Apologies for my imperfect action.

The article is much more nuanced than the 'there are only two sexes' statement that has been made on here several times. Which is why it's worth posting.

There are only 2 sexes. Male and female. And thousands of biological differences between the two sees.

If anyone can define a woman gender identity without using stereotypes or circular definitions that would be great. We are yet to be given one beyond a woman.is anyone who identify as a woman. Identifies as what?.what are the criteria?

I dont have a gender identity amd I refuse to be re defined against an ideology I don't believe in. I am.a woman. Adult human female. I have no gender .

Clothing preferences should not determine.which sports category you compete in.

Its extremely unfair. We now have mens sport and mixed.

Selfish beyond belief

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

‘Cis’ is a slur. If the only thing you can do is use insulting descriptors for women then you’ve no coherent argument. Read up on Save Womens Sports to get a scientific analysis of why the biological differences between the male and female bodies are crucial to fairness for women in sport. Interestingly, there is a transman also swimming in the same competitions as this transwoman - on the womens team! Because they know they wouldn’t stand a chance swimming agains men. savewomenssports.com/

The existence of disorders of sex development don't mean that perfectly average XY males who are crap at swimming are actually female swimming champions trapped in the wrong body. There's a far more obvious Occam's razor conclusion than that.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]@WeCouldBeSpearows

That article is overly simplistic and I doubt anyone is going to bother reading it unless you tell them what killer argument that Lia is a woman they will find in it, so it's a waste of time plopping down links.[/quote]
AND the researcher themselves later clarified that the material was about disorder and not relevant to her human trans debate.

Agree 100%. But maybe LT and Penn are doing us a huge favour in waking the world up to what has been going on for a while now in other sports and in the area of awards for women/ diversity initiatives / dismantling of female only provision such as rape crisis centres.

In the week that Sarah Everard’s killer is belatedly charged with indecent exposure, the fact that sport governing bodies and universities - institutions that should play a huge part in broadening women’s participation and opportunities - are actively colluding with this level of gaslighting and actively creating opportunities for male bodied people to share changing rooms with women and girls is disturbing to say the least.

And that’s before we even start on “You can’t have been raped on a womens ward in an NHS hospital because there were no men present” followed a full year later by an admission that there was indeed a transwoman present and CCTV evidence.

Williams is a man and what’s more, an odious cheat who is thoroughly taking advantage of the current wooly thinking around sex and gender. He should compete in his correct sex class, however he presents.

Young women who have worked hard and trained for years are being robbed of opportunities and prizes that are rightfully theirs. I am absolutely sick of it and sick of the fawning handmaidens who pretend it’s all right and we just have to “be kind”.

And fuck off with “cis”, I will not use that word.

This is team GB….

@HomeHomeInTheRange

I think it is great that Lia T is accepted as a woman and should not be subject to abuse or exclusion for being Trans.

Let her wear a swimming costume instead of trunks, tuck long hair into a swim cap, wear waterproof mascara.,. and compete against swimmers of her physical class.

And if any of those swimmers objects or harasses her in the changing room then he should have his place in the team and the college withdrawn for being transphobic.

Seems fair to me.

Age with almost everything you say, especially the last paragraph.

But not the first. Because Lia is not a woman. Lia is in some way a gender nonconforming male. I can or say accurately what Lia is - a gender nonconforming ma... , because that would get me deleted. But being a gender nonconforming male does not make you a woman.

(TBH I'm not sure what is gender nonconforming about a male beating women, or displaying penis to unconsenting women, or even about getting a kick from wearing clothing designed for women. But there we have it.)

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

If there are in your opinion so little differences between the sexes why would someone attempt to change their sex ?

@walksen

"My understanding is that sex is determined by the size of the gametes"

Maybe you should do some extra research then because this is nonsense.

Go on then, what’s your take on this?

@notyourmummy

I think that makes you a Cis woman...maybe my definition was clumsy, it's not my field of expertise!! Cis means you don't identify as something other than the gender assigned biologically to you, I guess?

I wasn't assigned a gender though. My sex was observed, not assigned. They didn't pull a ticket out of a hat and decide that's what I was one day.

Honestly this gender stuff is complete bollocks reinforced by sex based stereotypes.

AND the researcher themselves later clarified that the material was about disorder and not relevant to her human trans debate

I only posted in relation to the multiple 'there are only two sexes' comments. I've said nothing about transgender, and I wasn't posting the article in relation to that discussion.

The article is much more nuanced than the 'there are only two sexes' statement that has been made on here several times.

The author of the article, so often used to prop up ideas about gender identity ideology, has clearly stated on Twitter when asked that she was not claiming that there are more than 2 sexes, there are 2 sexes with variation within each.