Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

@DrivingHomeChristmas - You seem to be saying LT got there through psychology and nothing more. Can you explain how you know this? And if that's the case what makes you so sure that the women competitors who have their college placements riding on being on that swimming team didn't also use psychology in the same way?

Totally agree OP. Trans athletes should have their own category. No woman should have to face a biological male in sports, it simply isn’t fair. I think South Park covered this issue pretty well a couple of years ago.

I’m sick of the DSD whataboutism. Lia is a man with a male musculoskeletal system, a male voice and an obvious male penis.

Yet on this thread various TRAs turn up and say, but what about DSDs?

Personally I don’t think anyone with XY chromosomes and a male puberty should be in female sport, irrespective of whether they were initially thought to be female (Like Caster Semenya) but that’s irrelevant.

Lia does not have a DSD. He is a man who is competing against women and winning and somehow that’s ok coz “inner feelings”

It’s lunacy of such magnitude that I honestly want the world to stop so I can get off.

It’s also doing actual harm to the public perception of trans people who do wish to live a quiet life.

The height an weight argument are fucking garbage, biological women who identify as men pose no threat to mens sport, they can compete there all they like, they are the ones at a physical disadvantage. Also, once they have taken testosterone they have medicalised THEMSELVES out of female sports as they have effectively doped and given themselves a false advantage (even if the reason they felt the need to take testosterone was based on body/gender dysphoria).

Biological (however they identify)whether lighter in weight to other men, taller or shorter etc, and however they compare in height or weight to a women, have greater muscle mass, greater bone density, less elastic ligaments, greater upper and lower body strength, greater lung capacity, advantageous in every way. Even a mediocre man who has taken female hormones can beat the best in class females. Even if they have had themselves castrated and have had breast implants in an attempt to give the impression of a woman's body, even if they have grown their hair, they will still have all these advantages as they are not actually women, they are men who identify as women and have changed their appearance to meet their own perception of what a woman looks like to them.

Trans women are biological males and should not compete in women's sports.

I would happily help any campaign for a trans category to be stood up in sports, that would be fair and inclusive imo.

@BellatrixOnABadDay

For anyone who is struggling to understand why this isn't just a 'bit unfair' but absolute blatant awful cheating, please look at the attached photo of the GB mixed relay team members at Tokyo 2020. I cannot believe some people try to justify this.

Lia Thomas could have chosen to continue competing in the correct category for their biological sex. Instead they are cheating for all the world to see. How can they have any pride in anything they are stealing achieving?

For those who believe LT is just "training harder", watching the relay swimming should be a massive indicator of what happens when men compete against women! Because teams can choose who swims when, you see the teams who pitch their male swimmers first have a massive advantage until the women start against the men and it all evens out.

@BellatrixOnABadDay

For anyone who is struggling to understand why this isn't just a 'bit unfair' but absolute blatant awful cheating, please look at the attached photo of the GB mixed relay team members at Tokyo 2020. I cannot believe some people try to justify this.

Lia Thomas could have chosen to continue competing in the correct category for their biological sex. Instead they are cheating for all the world to see. How can they have any pride in anything they are stealing achieving?

Woah yes that hits it home a bit! We aren't talking about bog standard people here they are athletes who have worked hard and are physically in very very good condition.

@Pyjamagame

I just don't understand this 'gender identity'. I mean, the only reason I know I am a women is because I have the body of a woman. I wear trousers and t-shirts, but like cooking and DIY and I am always the navigator on family days out. I mean, how does a person 'feel' like a man or a woman? How does a person 'live' like a man or a woman? It all sounds so sexist to say 'I wear a dress and like pink therefore I must be a woman and must change my body accordingly'.

You have it exactly right and yes it is deeply deeply sexist but if you say this you are accused of transphobia by somebody. If you say it publicly you may lose your job and be vilified ( see what happened to JK Rowling, Kathleen Stock and many other women) but only if you are female. There some men in public life who say this openly but they are not threatened or hounded out of their jobs

There needs to be trans category. That’s the only way so trans male compete against trans male and trans women compete against trans women. That’s the only fair way. Otherwise all cis women athletes may as well pack up and go home now. The males who don’t rate in the male comps will just come across to the women comps in order to win.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

What's transphobic about acknowledging that there are two sexes at birth. Biological fact. FFS. You're part of the problem. Trying to blur the lines and call out anyone who dares to state fact (and unfairness based on birth biologic FACT) as transphobia. It isn't. I'm not transphobic but I do not agree that biologically born males should compete against biologically born females under the banner of "female" as there are biological advantages to those born as males. FACT.

And it is a disgrace that the TRA continually use the DSD community in an attempt to back up their argument. People with DSDs are not proof of a fucking sex spectrum.

Oh for goodness sake this is madness.

Two sexes. Male and Female that’s it , basic biology.

However someone chooses to identify is nothing to do with sex.

Out of interest how many transmen complete in mens swimming and proudly show their vulvas in the changing rooms?

and the twisting of reality< to label anybody who objects to men competing against women in women's races and winning as 'transphobic' it's a ridiculous argument. Women have to just accept that men's feelings before their right to a fair race!!?

@HoppingPavlova

There needs to be trans category. That’s the only way so trans male compete against trans male and trans women compete against trans women. That’s the only fair way. Otherwise all cis women athletes may as well pack up and go home now. The males who don’t rate in the male comps will just come across to the women comps in order to win.

Why does there need to be a trans category? Can't those who are biologically male compete against those who are biologically male? It doesn't matter if they see themselves as a woman inside. (I don't mean that offensively so sorry if I've used the wrong words)

There is (or was) a trans man swimmer with (iirc) Harvard swimming team.
This person was wholeheartedly accepted and was held up as some sort of woke mascot.
I mean, of course she was accepted, she was never any threat to the male competitors.

@maddening

And it is a disgrace that the TRA continually use the DSD community in an attempt to back up their argument. People with DSDs are not proof of a fucking sex spectrum.

Yes its very offensive

A trans category wouldnt be validating enough and no women would be losing out so it wouldnt be empowering either.

From a Yahoo news article:

“Thomas, who entered the competition as the top seed, finished the 500-yard freestyle with a season-best time of 4 minutes, 33.24 seconds. The race was close until the last 100 yards with Virginia’s Emma Weyant finishing second at 4:34.99.”

Emma Weyant won a silver medal in this event at the Tokyo Olympics last year. The third placed swimmer is also an Olympic silver medallist. That’s the calibre of athlete this #462 placed no-mark male college swimmer is displacing in women’s events. It’s a travesty.

Ross Tucker (sport scientist) has some excellent podcasts about transwomen in sport on his Science of Sports podcast channel. The scientific literature is unequivocal: oestrogen hormone treatment does not mitigate the significant advantages of male puberty. There is no fair way for these males to compete in women’s sport and there are major safety issues (for women competitors) in collision and contact sports too.

Posters on a forum called Mumsnet, saying there’s more than two sexes! That’s a major and first thing in the morning.

Which sexes are involved in reproduction and what are the ones that are not male or female?
Anyone?

A poster to be fair.

Why does there need to be a trans category? Can't those who are biologically male compete against those who are biologically male? It doesn't matter if they see themselves as a woman inside. (I don't mean that offensively so sorry if I've used the wrong words)
Because transmen would have a testosterone advantage over females.

Yanbu.

The proportion of truly intersex people is minute, and even fewer of those fall into categories that aren't easily classified as men or women by standard biological approaches (eg based on gametes you produce, chromosomes, phenotype etc).

These people are biological men and have developmental advantages over the women they compete against in sport. Its outrageous.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

If you genuinely believe what you say, why have sports been sex segregated for so long?

@DrivingHomeChristmas

My daughter has learning disabilities. It has taken years of work and fighting the system for her to be able to acccess a level 3 course at college. She has to have a TA and various other support. She has come top in every exam in her year. Not because of the concessions she has but because she has worked so hard after fighting to be on the course. It’s not just about physique and biology- sportspeople will tell you it’s psychology far more than training.

Working hard in class has nothing to do with physical sports. Dear God! 🙈🙈🙈😂😂😂😂

@BoredoutmymindBoredoutmymind

"your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here."

Lol what planet do you live on 😆 and I take offence to the term "cis women" you'll find there are women and transwomen, the later should not be competing with women. Transmen have physically male bodies which have gone through puberty, you can't undo puberty taking a few hormones the body has already physically developed, giving a transman an unfair advantage. If men and women were physically the same there wouldn't be any different sex categories, everyone would just compete together. As for your weight comment many sports do have different weight categories where weight would be an advantage eg boxing martial arts.

It's astounding that we are here, just think the next Olympics could be just men competing and winning in every category, not an actual woman in sight. It's like we don't even exist anymore.