BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

Safeguarding your children must be your priority; this includes from any fall out should the court case be in the media.

Would a police family liaison officer come and talk to you and your DH about the terminology used in such cases to help you both understand the charges and implications?
Another useful resource is the Lucy Faithfull foundation and their partner site ‘Stopitnow’. This has forums dedicated for family members to discuss the impact of finding out someone they know has been charged with child sexual offences and a anonymous telephone helpline. We’ve had dealings with them through work and had good experiences. This might be useful again for your DH as they explain the ‘facts’ without the emotion and may help him realise as much as he loves his brother the risk he poses to your children.

I would divorce DH if he minimised the abuse of children. Regardless of the risk or not to my own children.

Loyalty to his brother is no excuse.

Have you considered for one second those children in those images? What they endured so your BIL can get his kicks? Your dismissal of the early warning and even now is making me really angry. Get a grip.

Whilst many of us may deeply love our siblings I would find the specific utterance of "I love my brother unconditionally" a strange thing to say.

I can't imagine saying it and certainly have never heard it said.

Honestly, it is the type of statement I would think would come from someone asserting that they are supportive irrespective of their behaviour, which is a strange thing to assert.
It implies knowledge of something, or why else would you even think to say it?

I'm married nearly 30 years to a lovely man and I actually don't think I would say it.

Would i love him if he had and affair?
Drove drunk and injured someone?
Gambled our money?

MN is full of threads where partners change over night, abandon children and wives, screw them over financially.

So loving unconditionally a sibling/partner?
No.
Love is conditional IMO on my being treated respectfully by you.

OP, I really feel for you.

Trust in no-one.

Only trust yourself and your gut.

Your children desperately need you to be ruthless in your protection of them, at any cost.

I would want to be at that court hearing.

this is a difficult one I used to work in this field and a file is sometimes referred to as a Zip file which may have thousands in or just one . In addition most child images are on the dark web where you can get caught out if downloading some kinds of porn so may have unwittingly downloaded child images too

even if he has deliberately downloaded child images he is statistically very unlikely to hurt your child ( although its a massive red flag)

In addition to this he is family and not a stranger and your husband is clearly very upset and loves his brother and wishes to support him I suspect he knows him better than anyone and the fuller picture

I definitely would never leave my children alone with him however the lac of a sentence indicates that he is probably telling the truth and they've been downloaded with other images and indicates an extremely low risk but they do have a duty of care to notify family with children which is what they have done

My step children were victims of sexual abuse, we have just been through the court process with them.

In the sentencing report we heard that one of the perpetrators had 'inaccessible images'. In that context, it meant that there were files that the police could see the names of, but were unable to open. He had refused to provide them with the relevant passwords to do so. It was then assumed, based on the file names, some cross file placement (some appeared on other devices that they could access) and the type of files that they were child pornography and he was charged as such.

I'm no expert though, I don't know if there's a multi usage for that term.

Sorry you're having to deal with this OP, I understand how horrendous it is for family members. My thoughts are with you x

"the lac of a sentence indicates that he is probably telling the truth and they've been downloaded with other images and indicates an extremely low risk"

What do you mean, lack of a sentence? He hasn't been sentenced yet.

@spacehardware

Hang on - sentencing? So he's been convicted? And your husband still doesn't want to district himself and his children from him??

Do you think your husband shares his brothers hobby?

I thought the same

I don't know why your going in so much detail about inaccessible files etc. The facts of the matter is your bil is a paeodaphille! He has enjoyed watching images of children being raped if they involve all categories. Does your husband know this or is he in denial because that is what it is. Why on earth would he turn a blind eye. I think you need to seriously reconsider your marriage if your husband won't cut all ties with a peadophille and never ever should he be around any children ever

@maddy68

this is a difficult one I used to work in this field and a file is sometimes referred to as a Zip file which may have thousands in or just one . In addition most child images are on the dark web where you can get caught out if downloading some kinds of porn so may have unwittingly downloaded child images too

even if he has deliberately downloaded child images he is statistically very unlikely to hurt your child ( although its a massive red flag)

In addition to this he is family and not a stranger and your husband is clearly very upset and loves his brother and wishes to support him I suspect he knows him better than anyone and the fuller picture

I definitely would never leave my children alone with him however the lac of a sentence indicates that he is probably telling the truth and they've been downloaded with other images and indicates an extremely low risk but they do have a duty of care to notify family with children which is what they have done

He's awaiting sentencing.

Interesting that you seem to suggest that the OP should gamble her children's safety on "statistical likelihood" that a convicted paedophile won't try to abuse them, rather than risk hurting the offender's and his devoted brother in law's feelings by cutting contact and therefore guaranteeing their safety from him.

I totally understand how you think divorce could make it harder for you to protect the children. Ie if your husband had custody and took them to see him.

There must be someone who can help you should he be convicted. Who contacted you from SS? Can you speak to them again? Figure out what could happen.

It's particularly worrying as your dh talks about this 'unconditional love'. Even your thread title is odd. How might that impact on your children.? Is he saying his brother can do literally anything and it will be fine? It's weird.

PP are right in saying wait for sentencing. It may be that he gets a sexual harm prevention order, which may well mean that he's not allowed access to your children without parental and social services say so anyway (which even if your DH agrees to, it's unlikely SS will!) so decision will be entirely out of your hands.

Breaking the SHPO will fuck him over royally, and if your DH is as awestruck as you say he is, he won't want that.

Hold firm, but MH advice (and I wish I wasn't in a position to give it, but here we are) is make sure you and your DH goes to the sentencing. Best thing we ever did, you hear it all (Which is horrendous) but my god does it strengthen your resolve to never let those bastards near your children again.

@TheRealityCheque

Woooah. Just take a step back here everyone.

I've seen the phrases: peadophile, child abuse, and nonce used in this thread and yet nowhere in the OP does it say "indecent images OF CHILDREN"

Can the OP confirm what he's actually charged with as there's plenty of images of consenting adults (Hardcore BDSM for example) that can be illegal due to being "indecent". In fact there's plenty of things that it's perfectly legal for adults to do to each other that it's legal to own an image of (indecent).

Can we get clarification as to what the actual charge is here?

SS wouldn't have said he was to have no unsupervised contact with children if the charges were unrelated.

You must go to the hearing. What do you mean you can't because of travel?? Where is it? Get yourself there. It's really important.
DH needs to be there to hear the evidence. Tell him it's non-negotiable - you are both going and that's it.
Once the hearing is over you sit down together and discuss this.
If found guilty BIL should have no more contact with your children ever.
If DH at that point still does not want to accept his brother's guilt then you have no option but to divorce and when you go to court about access arrangements you can use all of this. DH might have to have supervised contact only if you are concerned that he will take the children to see his brother. Things like that are possible.
The dad of a relative of mine's children was only allowed supervised contact EOW and never overnight and that was for another reason so it can be done.

* Let's focus on what I'm asking. *

How about YOU focus OP

On what’s important

Rather than the “love of your life”

I have read your OP a few times and what strikes me is ' But being a family we wanted to hear both sides'. ...yep for someone going through a legal process due to images of abused children I think you will find the law will make a judgement based on the facts placed in front of them. You will find if you do your research that paedophiles are prolific liars so you cant trust a thing your BIL says I am afraid, You and your DH have been very naive and if your DH cant ensure your DC are safe then you will need. Abusers can abuse in plain sight so dont kid yourself that being supervised will prevent that. You dont need to facilitate supervised contact with a DC uncle. I hope your DH will see sense and if he wants to maintain a relationship with his brother it is separate to any relationship with you or your children

Sorry to be blunt here but you need to stop thinking about how you and your DH feel. You need to think only about the safety of your children. And that means they should never be around this man. Your DH needs a wake up call. I agree with previous posters you should both move heaven and earth and attend the sentencing hearing. You both need to hear the reality and stop minimising this man’s crime. He’s been charged with having indecent images of children FFS. Images of poor abused children. I’m not a mother and it makes me sick, I don’t understand how as a mother you are even considering allowing this man anywhere near your children.

@incognitoforthisone

as I understand it, its possible to buy bundles of images in a zip file. I do it for craft...you will get a bundle of hundreds of images in sets...except the ones I buy are christmas elves, snowy backgrounds and so on....but i don't see every image before I buy the bundle.

Generally speaking, porn sites don't just have illegal child abuse images on file that they can accidentally bundle into a zip folder and send round to people by mistake, not least because they're fully aware that they would be committing a crime by distributing it. If people are selling or swapping images like that, they're doing it on purpose and they're either making money for it or they're getting equally abhorrent content sent to them in return.

yes I absolutely agree, my point was that the person I replied to was talking as though images are only ever screenshot singly and images are chosen individually which is not true. As I said, i cannot imagine that vendors of porn are any less well organised than vendors of crafting images and they will only sell what the buyer asks for.

You also need to check your husbands history on his computer ! If they are so so close as you say and your Dh won't see this for what it is and protect his kids then I would be wondering if he is in cahoots with him quite frankly. Do some digging and make sure he isn't In on it too

But the issue is that he is blinded by that love.

He should be more blinded by love for his children.

His brother looked for, found and saved hundreds of images of children, children just like yours, being abused and raped because he finds it sexually arousing.

If your husband wants any relationship with his brother after knowing that then I genuinely could no longer be in a relationship with him in your shoes.

If he meets up with him in future, even if he doesn't spend time with your kids, he'll show him pictures of them and talk about them. That makes me feel physically sick and I don't even know you and your kids.

I would be sickened at him prioritising that relationship over his children. That he would prefer to maintain the relationship than grieve for it and let it go, in order to focus on his innocent children and his wife, the mother of those kids.

I really couldn't look at my partner in the same way if he supported his sibling after they had done what your BIL has done.

I couldn't support my sibling if they did what your BIL has done.

Some things are unforgivable. Yes, relationships and families are complicated. But some things are unforgivable especially when there are kids in your life.

@maddy68

this is a difficult one I used to work in this field and a file is sometimes referred to as a Zip file which may have thousands in or just one . In addition most child images are on the dark web where you can get caught out if downloading some kinds of porn so may have unwittingly downloaded child images too

even if he has deliberately downloaded child images he is statistically very unlikely to hurt your child ( although its a massive red flag)

In addition to this he is family and not a stranger and your husband is clearly very upset and loves his brother and wishes to support him I suspect he knows him better than anyone and the fuller picture

I definitely would never leave my children alone with him however the lac of a sentence indicates that he is probably telling the truth and they've been downloaded with other images and indicates an extremely low risk but they do have a duty of care to notify family with children which is what they have done

no one goes on the dark web to download pictures of ickle bunnys hopping round fields.

His excuse sounds plausible but you don't have all the information. That is the problem. However the police will almost certainly have more information than that. I'm not sure how feasible it is for child pornography to just be automatically and unknowingly downloaded when visiting a normal online pornography site. If he didn't know that it was there, then why did he delete it? Did he just think that it was normal porn that he hadn't bothered to look at? Have the police got evidence of deleted search terms or use of the dark internet? I suspect that a/ more evidence will come out during his trial b/that he won't receive a custodial sentence and c/he won't be allowed unsupervised access to any children and will be placed on the sex offenders register. It's a very tough position for you to find yourself in. He could appear to be a perfectly nice chap in other respects and might not be predatory (that's not to undermine the gravity of the impact of downloading images upon those victims of abuse), but if found guilty, he most certainly has a real problem and, despite what they say about the ability to reform, I personally do not believe that that is possible. I wouldn't be happy with any form of contract and absolutely would never allow unsupervised contact.

@GabriellaMontez

I totally understand how you think divorce could make it harder for you to protect the children. Ie if your husband had custody and took them to see him.

There must be someone who can help you should he be convicted. Who contacted you from SS? Can you speak to them again? Figure out what could happen.

It's particularly worrying as your dh talks about this 'unconditional love'. Even your thread title is odd. How might that impact on your children.? Is he saying his brother can do literally anything and it will be fine? It's weird.

The children would surely be able to tell the op they had seen him and the police could be involved then. I wouldn't be surprised if her husband was into it aswell. She said they are so close with unconditional love that's not really normal for a brother in law

Just wanted to reiterate a) how much proof is needed to even get a case like this to court, and b) that you (and DH) MUST try and get to court for the trial if at all possible. It will make it real for DH and you will get a proper idea of exactly what the evidence is 1st hand.

@lechatnoir

One of my friends DH was convicted of making and possessing indecent images of children in particular young girls and had about 100 highest category, similar in the middle and nearly 1000 of the 'least' serious . He is on the SO Register and has a SHPO both I think for 7 years and banned from working with children for life. With support from the Lucy Faithful foundation and family testimonies the judge decided he could be rehabilitated so was spared jail and his wife and two teenage daughters (then 11 & 13) continued to live with him.

Un-fucking-believable.

His oldest daughter was always overtly sexualised from a young age and there's a couple of incidents I can recall in years gone by that were a bit off (not at the time but with the benefit of hindsight) - sexy dances, parading in her swim suit that sort of thing I didn't think for a minute he'd escape a prison sentence and certainly didn't realise he'd be allowed to continue living with his children and didn't know until I saw them all walking the dog one evening!! there is absolutely no doubt in my mind something awful has happened to those girls who are now completely off the rails. The minute my friend told me she was sticking by her husband I walked away, spoke to my children (not easy as they were only 10 & 12) and will never speak to her whilst she in with him.

When we first heard about it, she massively downplayed his involvement and it wasn't until it was reported in the papers that the true extend of his depravety came out.

Thats insane.

@maddy68 you should be banned from giving any advice. What a load of nonsense you speak.