BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

NC For this.

My 18 yo autistic son was arrested late December, right before lockdown. My house was raided and all of his devices removed. We were told at the time there was 1-5 images they were looking for. He made a statement right then saying that it was hentai porn and there was more than 5. SS said he had to move out right away as I had a 12 yo daughter and a 15 yo son. Due to corona it took a LONG time to find out about the other files on the devices. Two years after his arrest he went to court. I was on holiday with my sister when he was in court and my DH accompanied him. He got a ten year sexual harm prevention order and was placed on the register for the same time.

As it was two years between arrest and sentencing, we had already dealt with the anger/disgust and I had really struggled with reviving my love for him as my sun with my views as an anti porn feminist and survivor of child hood sexual abuse. We were hoping to get him rehabilitated as he had told us at this point that he had a porn addiction that started at age 11 when he got his first smart phone/iPad. My DH didn't tell me about the extra images they found as he thought it was all over and done with.

Two weeks after the sentencing I was in Asda car park when my phone rang. My adult daughter was hyperventilating and screaming. It had hit the papers. All my kids were quite popular in our small town, in local acting groups etc and I grew up here. My entire family lives here. And everything, or name, road, his school ( that his younger siblings still attended) was all made public. Our lives were absolutely destroyed in one article. And then I learned the actual truth about my sons offences. Turned out it was 1500 images and while most were hentai ( with teen school girls) but there was other much more serious images. And that's his legacy. We are all in therapy, my beautiful internet high achieving daughter lost friends hand over fist and is still in counselling.

Please don't underestimate the effect that his sentencing will have on your family. The feelings that it brings with it are incredibly intense and over whelming. But it means that you absurdly will find out the truth regardless of what he says he's been sentenced for. You can go to the court and hear it yourself if you want to. But you can't call the court and ask them as they won't tell you.

Protect your kids. Call the NSPCC helpline or wait until sentencing and get in touch with SS. Although they've not once been in touch with me since the arrest. Wet just all make sure the kids are never alone with their brother. They barely see him tbh.

If he is convicted he will be on the SOR (sex offenders register) and almost definitely have a SHPO (sexual harm prevention order). Given the images are of children, the SHPO will likely prohibit contact with under 16’s, but each SHPO is “personalised” so to speak, but I’d be shocked if they didn’t have that as a condition on there.

His time on the SOR and being subject to a SHPO will long outlive his punishment by court (so his community order, suspended sentence or custody sentence). For indecent images registration for SOR depends on what he got - so community order he’d be on the SOR for 5 years, custodial sentence of 6 months or less (regardless of whether this was imposed immediately or suspended) is 7 years, between 6 months and 30 months custody (again doesn’t matter if it was suspended or not) 10 years and anything over 30 months custody is a indefinite. SHPO’s tend to run for the same period of time, but doesn’t have to. So in short, yes he will still restrictions for a long while yet. Rightly so.

If BIL is found to be in breach of his SOR or SHPO conditions, this is a criminal offence in itself. He will know what his conditions are and this will likely include not seeing any children.

Keep this man away from your children. He is a snake and has lied continually to you all about the extent of his crimes. He is absolutely NOT to be trusted around your children under any circumstances. If you worry that DH won’t abide by keeping the kids away, then you keep them away from him too. Safeguard your children.

as I understand it, its possible to buy bundles of images in a zip file. I do it for craft...you will get a bundle of hundreds of images in sets...except the ones I buy are christmas elves, snowy backgrounds and so on....but i don't see every image before I buy the bundle.

Generally speaking, porn sites don't just have illegal child abuse images on file that they can accidentally bundle into a zip folder and send round to people by mistake, not least because they're fully aware that they would be committing a crime by distributing it. If people are selling or swapping images like that, they're doing it on purpose and they're either making money for it or they're getting equally abhorrent content sent to them in return.

I've put in a request to the court/police for the details of the case so that I can have at least the evidence first hand rather than through the BIL.

I mean.... seriously even if for some reason you couldn't get to the hearing (and personally I would move heaven and earth) how is hearing it 'through the BIL' even an option? Do you really expect him to tell you how it went down and exactly what he was accused of?

You've got to stop all this vaguery around him. Your OP is full of talk of 'your suspicions' and 'benefit of the doubt'. Stop it. Stop it now. And now talk of possibly having to get the outline of the hearing from ACTUAL BIL.

It's really hard and awful but you need to take a step back from the relationship you USED to have with BIL and now treat everything with your children's protection front and centre.

"Why would he do that when he'd risk hearing things he'd rather not, and lose the chance to insist "It wasn't like that really"?"

Oh he may well not want to hear it, agreed, but if he refuses to go and hear for himself he can't really refute anything the OP says if she goes

I don't understand the "travel makes it too difficult for us to attend" argument. Either the BIL is miles and miles away, in edict case NC is easy, or OP is joining her husband in the ostrich behaviour

@myceliumama I am so, so sorry this has happened to you. This could be any one of us - nobody knows anybody as well as they think they do.

I can't imagine how hard this must have been for all of you. And it's brave and selfless of you to share your story here to help OP. I wish you and your family all the best.

It sounds as if SS were trying not to give away any specific, identifying details about the children in the photos which might prejudice the case. But I'm very suspicious that the reason they warned you to keep BIL away from YOUR CHILDREN, is that your children are in the indecent pictures. How else would SS know you and your children exist and are contacts of BIL? Who could have alerted SS other than police and child protection? (Part of police investigations into those cases, is identifying the children shown).

In such cases, different degrees of " sexual indecency" are classified in law and that classification of BILs images will be mentioned in court. In your shoes I'd make very sure to be in the public gallery at his trial,. to hear the classification, the exact charges against BIL and his responses. ( "not knowing they were on the device" as he's claiming, is the classic excuse by childporn image offenders).

the image categories and related sentences are here

If BIL is convicted, but doesn't get a prison sentence, he will still be put on the sex offenders register , and may receive a Sexual Harm Prevention 0rder (SHPO)limiting his contact with children.

In any event, if he's convicted and on the SOR with a SHPO against him, it's hard to imagine DH will either continue to defend him or permit further access to your children.

@myceliumama
That’s so awful for you all. It’s shit and it never goes away, I remember the sick feeling that I got when my cousin was in the paper, it must have been awful for you all.

I wouldn't leave your husband yet. If you did leave because of this and he allows contact with someone on the SOR he could lose unsupervised access to his own children. Could you contact the NSPCC and ask if someone could talk your husband through the realities of this situation and future consequences? It might be that he will pay more attention to someone who isn't personally involved and who has no personal axe to grind .he could also have his mind opened enough to recognise any signs of grooming. Now or in the future. It's hard to have to be suspicious of someone you previously held in high regard but as far as children are concerned, better safe than sorry

@2bazookas That’s a bit of a jump, SS do contact all connected children.

Your BIL has already lied to you about possessing indecent, unlawful images of children.

That's all you need to know.

Your husband needs to get his priorities straight. Is there anyone who works in this area who can talk to him about the realities of people who do this, even though it's devastating to hear?

BIL cannot be near your children!

Picking up on a point made by @Newschapter, the court reporting for the court case I spoke about did not appear in the court reporting pages because children were involved & named in the evidence given.

@LotinLife, as so many others have said, you both need to be there in person to hear for yourselves what has happened.

You might also consider the horrible possibility that the reason DH won't condemn BIL, is because the two of them have exchanged porn images .

There would not be court case involving indecent images of your children without your knowledge OP.
If social services believed your children to have a likelihood of being harmed they would have interviewed your dc and yourself.

It is standard practice to ascertain all family members with children in cases like your BIL and advise no unsupervised contact.

OP ignore @2bazookas

[quote InnocentMyArse]@2bazookas That’s a bit of a jump, SS do contact all connected children.[/quote]
Bil has not yet been tried or convicted. So how do SS even know about BIL, let alone which children he is connected to?

OP I'm not sure if this will appear before or after sentencing but you should be able to obtain a copy of the written judgment which will outline all the key factors.

Try googling BIL's name in "quote marks" plus judgment or the name of the court. Or have a click around www.bailii.org

It's incredibly important to have the facts in black and white. No doubt they will show you that 'I downloaded them by accident' is not at all credible.

@2bazookas because they ask for all relevant contacts as part of safeguarding procedures.

Safeguarding starts way before anything ends up in court usually.

Can your DH attend the court case? Hearing the charges in person and the evidence and sentencing might make things much clearer in his mind

as I understand it, its possible to buy bundles of images in a zip file. I do it for craft...you will get a bundle of hundreds of images in sets...except the ones I buy are christmas elves, snowy backgrounds and so on....but i don't see every image before I buy the bundle.

I am NOT excusing paedophilia or indeed porn in general which i find abhorrent....but its not as simple as saying oh its impossible to download somthing without seeing it....also I doubt that porn sites are any less well organised than craft sites and bundles are sold by type...I bet they bundles are quite specific.

Quote above.
In relation to images downloaded from online.

Surely in purchasing files, there would be lists as to content.
I don't believe for one second that images of CP are purchased ''Accidentally''.

By they I mean the police.
Police and social services work quite closely on child protection stuff.

My aunt said the only way she could get through this with her son was by loving him whilst hating what he did, she’s still struggling and their relationship will never be the same. She never minimises it and fully accepts that we don’t want to see him but we respect that she does. It sounds like your Dh has a lot to work through before he gets to that stage.

Having the facts in black and white print makes things indisputable

Why would you even allow supervised visits? If it was me, there's no way that the disgusting peadophile uncle will get to perve over my DC.

OP it's not clear whether he's been convicted and awaiting sentencing or whether he's pleading not guilty and going to trial, or what? I've assumed he's been convicted already but you should familiarise yourself with the process and find out what information you can access and when.

This should be your priority to be honest - I know it's confusing but shouldn't be too hard to find out? The judgment will be your best source of information rather than hearsay and excuses.