All male colleagues have a Teams channel I'm not on.

[Choux]

My manager is male and all his other direct reports are male. Male dominated industry trying hard to improve the gender balance. Lots of sport esp football talk but generally my colleagues are ok, family oriented blokes.

We wfh most days but go into office together Weds. My manager mailed this morning to all of us to say he wasn't coming to office tomorrow as he was going to the football tomorrow night and couldn't get there in time from the office. (He has a long commute)

Another colleague replied to all to say 'I am coming in still but you all know that as I sent a Teams chat on the subject'. I am not on the Teams chat. It's not clear if my manager is on the Teams chat or not or how often chat is happening on there and what topics are being discussed.

Maybe it's mainly football talk but I'm annoyed at being excluded, him not realising I am excluded and I'm even thinking about all the times over my career I have felt excluded eg hearing the men i sat next to every day in a previous role often went for a beer after work but didn't invite me.

AIBU to start my reply on whether I am going to office tomorrow with 'Which Teams chat is that???'

I'm just sick of 20 plus years of occasional discoveries I've been excluded, paranoia that working relationships were being built when I wasn't around, jobs, promotions etc were being discussed and people were being helped into them because they were mates etc. I feel compared to the majority of my male colleagues from twenty years ago I have underachieved. Maybe part of it is that they were more driven but I think a part of it is that the workplace is still stacked against women.

I hear you @Choux. Ask about it - put them on the spot.

And rehearse a statement you can make without sounding upset, which points out that this could be seen as exclusionary and workplace bullying.

@LaChanticleer

I'm just sick of 20 plus years of occasional discoveries I've been excluded, paranoia that working relationships were being built when I wasn't around, jobs, promotions etc were being discussed and people were being helped into them because they were mates etc. I feel compared to the majority of my male colleagues from twenty years ago I have underachieved. Maybe part of it is that they were more driven but I think a part of it is that the workplace is still stacked against women.

I hear you @Choux. Ask about it - put them on the spot.

And rehearse a statement you can make without sounding upset, which points out that this could be seen as exclusionary and workplace bullying.

She'd have a job to do that.

You need to call this out. How about:

Hey all. Didn’t realise there was a Teams Chat. I need to know peoples whereabouts too so please add me. Thanks.

It's normal to have private Teams chats. However, this guy has posted in the wrong one, which is the problem.

Do you have an existing channel/chat for your whole team to post these kinds of updates in? Does it actually get used?

I think you just need to remind them that if they're posting these kind of things on Teams, they need to make sure they post in the right place. That's it.

It could be a group for football? Or some other crap like F1. Not sure I could be bothered but raise it anyway.

I would mention it.
I work in a male dominated team and we had a work group chat.
Tbh most of it was silly memes,football references and it got on my nerves to be in contact after a 12 hr day.
They forgot it was a work group and posted disgusting things too.
Luckily for me some of them left so no one posts unless it is important work stuff.
You are probably not missing anything but it is nice to be asked if u would like to be included.

Do you need to know this colleague is off -surely he needs to tell his boss and put it through the holiday system.

So him mentioning it on the football chat does not matter . Heck I may say I am having tomorrow off to people to play a new game in my work "what games are you playing" chat but that doesn't make that chat group a work chat that everyone needs to be in.

I have got my day off booked and told those Who need to know via the correct channels (which work colleague did -hence why the op knows about it, it was raised in a work chat too)

@burnoutbabe

Do you need to know this colleague is off -surely he needs to tell his boss and put it through the holiday system.

So him mentioning it on the football chat does not matter . Heck I may say I am having tomorrow off to people to play a new game in my work "what games are you playing" chat but that doesn't make that chat group a work chat that everyone needs to be in.

I have got my day off booked and told those Who need to know via the correct channels (which work colleague did -hence why the op knows about it, it was raised in a work chat too)

Discrimination basics.

If a dominant group has private work chats that under-represented groups are excluded from, that is discrimination.

It doesn't matter if all they chat about is football. If it is on a work system, and it is an all male group, and the only person not included is a female (under-represented group, in a work situation, excluded from work chats) that is discrimination.

Even if all she wants to talk about is chickens and flower arranging, it does not matter. Because she will never ever know what the fucking chat is about because she is being excluded.

Honest to god I thought people knew this by now? How are so many people completely ignorant of basic work practices?

Luckily with men you don’t need to be subtle.

Reply to the message from your manager saying ‘I hadn’t seen your message on of Teams chat - can you add me if I’m not on one of the groups?’

No need to elaborate or overthink. Just shove in - it’s what men do and they don’t think twice about it.

Placeholder update:

I posted during the week that I'm going to ask the person who posted about the teams chat about it when we are next in the office so I can see his reaction. He seems like a nice enough guy so I am not sure he would be deliberately excluding me and I think will be horrified and apologetic in equal measure if I said I felt I was being.

I didn't say anything on Tuesday as
a) I have no proof an ongoing channel exists - it could just have been a quick 4 or 5 way chat in response to my manager's email.
b) my reaction felt like more than a reaction to that particular message. It was a 'oh no not more evidence of the work boys club' reaction coming from 20 plus years of working in a mostly male environment. By the time I spent some time figuring out why I felt that way the moment to reply had somewhat passed.
c) the channel won't be about work or, if it is it will be largely irrelevant to my work. I get that not everyone needs to be included in every interaction that happens at the work place especially if it's not work related.

But I will be asking questions to find out if there is an ongoing channel and, crucially for me, if my manager is on it. Then I can decide if I am going to ask to be added.

but your boss could well be in the "football chat" channel. We have plenty of social channels in our work place for people to come together (as all WFH) about various things - wordle is a big one now.

As well as the normal ones that are for particular work teams as well.

@burnoutbabe

but your boss could well be in the "football chat" channel. We have plenty of social channels in our work place for people to come together (as all WFH) about various things - wordle is a big one now.

As well as the normal ones that are for particular work teams as well.

And it appears that the OP is not in any of them.

@burnoutbabe

but your boss could well be in the "football chat" channel. We have plenty of social channels in our work place for people to come together (as all WFH) about various things - wordle is a big one now.

As well as the normal ones that are for particular work teams as well.

But how are those social channels joined? Are they open to everyone or do people just set them up with friends?

I don't know what the facts are re the chat I was not a part of but a football chat channel that's been set up by someone that includes all my peers but not me is a way for them to bond about any and every topic. And I am excluded from that bonding. And, if they have added my manager to that chat and are excluding me then that's worse.

Three guys having a private football chat during work time on Teams is one thing. Five (which is all of peers) guys plus my manager having a private channel that only I am not on would be quite another. The chat might be 90% football and 10% other social stuff but I'm not being given the option to participate in the other 10% because no one added me to it.

As I said I'm going to ask about it when we are next in the office together and hopefully find out if I am being excluded.