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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

This is clearly unreasonable but what do I do now?

240 replies

Flexibilityofapavingslab · 15/03/2022 08:18

DS has a problem with his ear, we’ve been to the GP and it hasn’t resolved.

I’ve managed to get a hospital appointment but it’s some 45 minutes away, with hindsight I know what work are like about time off and I should have called in sick. But I thought because it was health related and for a young child I’d be granted the time off.

They have said no, it’s a school. They just keep saying to rearrange in holiday time or after school.

I think if I lie it could be a disciplinary - I feel so conflicted.

OP posts:
saraclara · 16/03/2022 20:28

@threatmatrix

It’s your job, they count on you to work to your contract. Appointments should be made out of work hours or taken as holiday.
The problem with teaching is that you can't take a day as 'holiday'. You could be waiting two months for a school holiday to come up, and even then, the odds of the NHS (in most peple's cases) coming up with an appointment in that holiday are slim.

OP would have no problem at all if teachers (or others working in a school) could take a day's leave as holiday.

saraclara · 16/03/2022 20:29

@PinaColada123456

Why is your husband abroad that week? I think it might be time that he stepped up to the plate and came back, if you've been the one to have the time off so far.
Soo her DH has to cancel a week's work abroad (with all the people who have that in their calendar for meetings with him etc affected) because a HT won't let OP leave work 30 minutes early? really?
Degreeincodology · 16/03/2022 20:29

In Irish schools we're allowed up to 5 personal days a year. You just need to get colleagues to cover your lessons.

liveforsummer · 16/03/2022 20:46

Don't you have special leave or family days? I mean I guess you don't but we get 7 per year in total and I'm just a TA. They can refuse in the grounds that the business can't manage without you but it's never actually happened.

Satsumaeater · 16/03/2022 20:47

I think their policy is fine, but I think they should make exceptions where needed. It’s no clear how much of an impact the ear problem is. You said you can have an appointment two weeks later? So is this private? I think if it’s not a big impact to your son and you only have to wait 2 weeks, this isn’t necessarily an exception I’d make

A two week wait over leaving work 30 minutes early? Seriously?

Torag · 16/03/2022 20:53

I'm a teacher. This is incredibly short sighted of your HT, not least because you could end up taking even more time off as a result. This works both ways - it's exactly this sort of lack of trust in staff that leads to work to rule. I can't imagine that your HT would be OK with this if he / she were in your situation. Everyone knows that hospital appointments are issued, not selected. To try and change them takes ages (I recently changed my mum's appointment and I was on hold for 47 minutes; I think it is made deliberately difficult to deter people from doing it) so you don't really have many options.

In my school we have several members of staff with children with quite complex medical needs. What would be the case in your school if a member of staff had a child needing regular medical appointments?

I think you return to your HT and point out that it was an issued appointment and you had no choice. Your DC is in pain and you have no other option but to go. Offer to make up your time and see what they say. Say that you're OK if they have to issue a formal warning because you literally have no other option available to you. By being rather blasé about their threat (if they issue it) might lessen the power they think it has.

If it's a whole school staff meeting surely it's minuted for part timers? That's what happens in our school. Or are you SLT and expected to contribute? If so, can someone deputise for you?

I'm quite shocked at those people saying that the clinic will probably be running late so just turn up 30 minutes late. This is so unbelievably disrespectful and massively adds to the endless issues faced by hospital staff. Just turn up on time; it's basic manners.

Lastly, imagine if every single workplace dictated that all appointments should take place out of core hours. How would the NHS cope?

Torag · 16/03/2022 20:55

PS - recently my HT was absolutely fine for me to take my cat to the vet, requiring me to leave 15 minutes early. I'd go to the ends of the earth for my HT and all SLT because they treat me as a human.

PinaColada123456 · 16/03/2022 20:55

@Sweetpeasaremadeofcheese Why is it all on her? And why can't he work in his own country closer to home, since he has a family and responsibility. Her employer is being ridiculous, but she is not a single parent. Why do we put all the responsibility on the mother to make all the work sacrifices?

SheilaFentiman · 16/03/2022 20:57

Err, Pina, I think the husband is abroad next week for work, not necessarily all weeks!

ldontWanna · 16/03/2022 21:05

As school staff I know schools run more on staff good will than contracts.
As such the head is being very short sighted and ridiculous really. It's a hospital appointment , for a child that is in pain and only 30 minutes . Is it worth losing the good will of good staff over the sake of that and yet another staff meeting? Is it fuck.

Did you request your leave verbally or in writing/filled in a form? Are there leave forms available to you? I'd fill one up with very specific times and cite hospital appointment for child then hand it in. Offer to have the time off unpaid.

I have plenty of things to moan about at my school, but thankfully things like that have never been an issue. Probably why I'm still there.

PinaColada123456 · 16/03/2022 21:07

@SheilaFentiman

Err, Pina, I think the husband is abroad next week for work, not necessarily all weeks!
Fine but if her son is in pain, and the OP can't get the time off, he needs to step up to the plate. Surely he can join them a day late/leave a day or two early?

I feel people aren't getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the woman shouldn't have to be the primary carer. For whatever reason (and in this case her boss is being unreasonable) she can't get the time off, without significant risk to her job when she has already had so much time off. Her son is unwell and in pain. One of these parents have to take him to the doctor. One of them has to. They can't leave it much longer. So it might just be a case where the DH arrives to work overseas a day late. We are all focusing on the OP, and I feel the parental focus and responsibility is unbalanced and unfair. If she can't get the time off and she's already had a bit of time off with covid, he will just have no choice but to cut the work week abroad short. If OP was the one of the two working abroad, no one would question her having to cut the work week abroad short. But because it's a male, it seems to be unthinkable to contemplate.

What other choice is there?

ilovechocolate07 · 16/03/2022 21:08

I work in a school and there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be granted time off to take my child to a medical appointment. I feel for you OP!

Whatelsecouldibecalled · 16/03/2022 21:11

@PinaColada123456 I get what you're saying. For me DH is military do cutting the week wouldn't be an option. When he's gone. He's gone. Perhaps the ops husband hasn't got a job that is that easy to change?

Whatelsecouldibecalled · 16/03/2022 21:11

I've bet 99% certain your HT is a male

MangyInseam · 16/03/2022 21:16

@threatmatrix

So, if you run a small business you rely on your staff and one being off without notice can seriously damage it. Obviously she should take it as holiday. I can see that you have never had your own business.
She gave notice, though she'd have been better off not to.
Musmerian · 16/03/2022 21:18

This is shocking. I’m a teacher in a secondary school and this would be a given - I wouldn’t even have to apply formally- I’d just tell them I was going to be off and ask for cover.

Lycra60 · 16/03/2022 21:19

Not sure how it works re your job, but I always thought that Hospital appointments are different to GP/dentist/optician and you should be given time off as, in most circumstances, the Consultant/Clinic is usually only on at certain times and particular days, so rearranging will just move issue to a later date!

Twitterwhooooo · 16/03/2022 21:20

I think the suggestion about putting in writing that your child is in pain, that you have been medically advised not to delay this hospital appointment and that there is no-one else that can take him is a good one. Followed by saying what time you'll need to leave and confirming that no cover will be required.

If it's PPE time that you're missing, you'll no doubt be making it up out of school hours and meetings do continue to function is someone isn't there.

I think you need to advise of you plan of action, rather than ask tbh. It's not acceptable to expect a child to be in pain and discomfort for another two weeks.

OinaColada I do get what you're saying in principle, but in this actual situation it is ridiculous that anyone would be thinking of rearranging complicated overseas working arrangements rather than the parent who is in the UK simply leaving work 30 mins early.

If OP was the only specialist in the country able to perform some time critical, life saving surgery which was booked for that particular day, you might have a point.

But OP is a teacher for whom the school won't even need to arrange cover if she leaves 30 mins early one day.

saraclara · 16/03/2022 21:22

@Whatelsecouldibecalled

I've bet 99% certain your HT is a male
I wouldn't.

I had a head who insisted on the same thing. SHE was never ill, so anyone off sick was unreasonable and unreliable in her eyes. And as she never needed a hospital appointment, she seemed to think you could just book one for 6pm on a day of your choosing. She had a child, but when she needed to go to A&E once, she got her childminder to take her.

MangyInseam · 16/03/2022 21:24

Things being what they are now with teacher shortages, I might think about just saying I'd resign, and doing it if they wouldn't back down. You might end up in a better place.

bamboo12 · 16/03/2022 21:26

I work in a school.
I had 5 months off for a spinal fusion. Then 9 weeks off for a hysterectomy.
Plus 5 additional days due to illness - Norovirus.
I have had to take days off on an emergency basis on parental leave which doesn’t go down as sick but my parental leave entitlement.
I’m now off again as I have covid!
Your school are unreasonable!
Some doctors only work certain hours for clinic you can’t always rearrange to a better time. They should let you go.

dizzydizzydizzy · 16/03/2022 21:28

@BobblyBlueJumper

You work in a terrible school (I work in one, so I'm not talking out of my butt)

No reasonable person would deny a parent leaving 30 min early to take their child to a hospital appointment!

I'm flabbergasted at their inflexibility and cruelty tbh.

I don't have a solution for you, but I am appalled on your behalf.

This! I'm a school governor and I would definitely agree to you taking the time out.
However, in our school the head would
Agree to such a request straight away.

ldontWanna · 16/03/2022 21:28

@saraclara my old head was the same except her kid was all grown up and working at the school. Indeed she rarely took time off for childcare emergencies, but that's because the kids would just come in and sit in granny's office on the laptop for the day.
Funnily enough, when I asked if I could bring DD in (her school shut midday due to a gas leak) I was told no, so had to leave and take half a day unpaid and was told off the next day. I started looking for a new school then and there.

RiverSkater · 16/03/2022 21:48

I would say it's half an hour now or I'll be off with a sick child because he didn't get treatment. Your call.

Well, not in those words maybe!

MsGoodenough · 16/03/2022 21:56

I think this is appalling but not surprising. My school have been known to phone hospitals direct to ask them to change appointments! Luckily we now have a more humane Head. I would speak to your union rep and also contact the Head of Givernors to request parental leave. Its bonkers.