Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

OP - you are right
I am white
I feel more affected by what is happening in Ukraine than I have in other wars / conflicts in my lifetime —
I’ve been thinking about why ….
I think it’s because it’s women, children, elderly, and pets that you see being displaced
ME / African wars we have seen mostly men being displaced and we don’t see what is happening to the most vulnerable -
I don’t empathise with men getting their asses out and leaving the most vulnerable
I might be completely wrong / due to media biases and bullshit
Or My own biases ……

@BewareTheLibrarians. What do you expect them to do, sit back and make the Russians tea? Wars war, Ukrainian s didn’t ask for it but they willing to fight for their country.

There does seem to a bias in how people are perceiving the Ukrainian refugees opposed to how people have seen those from other countries. There's always been a narrative around deserving and undeserving refugees. Women and children, white people, Christians and those who travel by regular means are more deserving of humanity than those who are forced to make a perilous journey on a little boat across the channel or whose faces don't fit.

Interestingly though the government did start resettlement schemes for Syrian refugees and those evacuated from Afghanistan. Although there is much room for improvement in their response, they took more action than they are doing for the Ukrainian people now.

Since when has Ukraine been a neighbouring country to the UK ?

We certainly were not as welcoming to Bosnian refugees which is closer to us. Could it be because they were mainly Muslim no can’t be surely not

Funnily enough DH and I (both white and English) were having this conversation earlier.

Do people on here think that there are no black or middle Eastern Ukrainians? That every non white person fleeing is a healthy man seeking financial migration?

Stop dismissing real stories that have been told from non white mouths. Stop making excuses to justify your own subconscious racism.

I am massively conflicted by the whole thing. Black and Asian students were subject to a lot of racism at the borders trying to leave the country. I just find my sympathy levels aren't so high for the Ukrainian people as a result. I know it's not all Ukrainians and the racisn makes my stomach turn

I completely agree with you OP and it’s a horrible feeling.

Anyone who thinks a Ukrainian refugee has more right to a safe new home because they are more likely to be female needs to give themselves a shake. Women’s lives are no more important than mens.

Do you have any statistics on refugees in the U.K.?

I’ve worked with hundred of refugees in the U.K. and not one of them was white.

There is a massive mental difference between Ukraine and Syria, based purely on geography. Ukraine is part of Europe, it’s part of our continent. This feels so much more on our own doorstep, much closer to home, and much more worryingly similar to WW1 and WW2. War on our doorstep with threat to pull us in will always elicit more response than countries outside of Europe, that don’t seem to pose any real threat to our comfortable lives. People are very very scared of widespread war in Europe erupting, and many remember the Cold War and the effects of WW2.

@lonelyapple sorry but what are they supposed to stay and defend their country with? Stones? You can't compare vulnerable countries like Syria, Palestine etc with Ukraine who are having aid and support dropped off at the borders. They don't compare. BTW before anybody @me I completely sympathise with Ukraine. Just saying.

Israel is ready to accept 25000 refugees from Ukraine and have already accepted a huge ammount of refugees in the last few weeks.

Ynbu OP.
If I could have signed up to a national scheme for other refugees I would have. That option wasn't available. Why??
Overall reporting on refugees is shocking.
Still huge reference to migrants rather than refugees.
Still a massive focus on UK safety etc.
I don't think you see this in other countries.

I do think the sex and ages of the refugees has a big impact.
I had considered offering my own free room previously but the greatest need was for accommodation for single men.
As a woman with children I did not think that a young man would be a suitable guest.
Woman with children are a completely different proposition.

@HopelesslyOptimistic

If it were just white young men arriving there’d be nowhere near as much help.

Also as PP said, nations like Turkey, Iran and Lebanon housed millions of refugees from due to their proximity and similar culture.

Of course Europe is going to be sympathetic a European nation and take them in. The UK is only now doing it because of the outcry of their handling of welcoming (not so welcome) Ukrainian refugees.

That’s so good to hear that their neighbouring country would do that. That’s what we are doing for Ukraine but getting branded racist in the process.
@Katya213

U.K. doesnt border Ukraine. At least three countries are crossed to get to uk.
Pakistan borders Afghanistan.

@thebellsesmereldathebells

I entirely agree OP. It's so blatant - the level of concern people feel for the Ukrainian refugees is in stark contrast to the wall of indifference about horrific suffering in Syria, Nigeria, Palestine, Yemen, Tigray - it;s impossible to draw any conclusion other than that white people are just more important.

Some of the stories coming out about the treatment of black and Asian people fleeing Ukraine are horrendous. Indian students literally beaten back by border guards. Black children forced off evacuation trains to make room for white Ukrainians. Nigerians told "Poland is that way - you can walk".

We're all horrified, and scared, by what is happening in Ukraine, and it does feel more immediate because it's Europe. But we need to have some hard conversations about how we value people of different races, and the level of personhood we afford to people who don't look like us.

It was the racist treatment of African and Asian students trying to cross the border to get out of Ukraine, that appalled me. It was especially galling over the initial lack of media focus on it.

@WonderfulYou

YANBU and there have been other countries actually saying the words these are white so we need to help them.

However of course not everyone is like that and the main reason the UK and other countries are taking this so seriously and are so desperate to help - is simply because it affects us.

In the Middle East we can ignore what’s going on as that’s all the way over there.
This war is over joining NATO which we’re apart of and it’s a lot closer to home.

We care because we hope if it was happening to us, other countries would care too.

Massive generalisation I know but it’s true that people often only care if they think it’s affects them.

but WHY is it wrong for people to care only about what affects them? There's so much stuff going on. How is it possible to care about everything. One who sits on multiple chairs will fall in between.

Nobody in my home country gave a shit about other continents. Why would we? We were 'aware' of it, of course, but we had our own problems to solve.

Now I appreciate this is different for countries like the UK which has a) a colonial past and b) is the cause of war, directly or indirectly in many faraway places. And of course at a higher level there's global macroeconomic shocks, like oil prices.

HOWEVER from a human perspective it's logical to care more about what's happening in your own backyard. It's not evil, it's completely sensible.

I've felt awful seeing all the displacement and lives ruined in recent war s especially Syria.
The horrors of Syria and chemicals and Isis

But as look says , young men fleeing France doesn't seem as desperate as women, the elderly and vulnerable fleeing an active war zone.
We've been told time and time again that it makes sense for the men to leave the vulnerable behind whilst they make the journey.

Now we're seeing the opposite from Ukraine.
Imagine if all the men were running away leaving the elderly, vulnerable, disabled, children behind!
Have fun with Putin's Russia!

It's absolutely absurd and doesn't make sense.
Is it cultural?
I don't know.

@Tillsforthrills

Out of respect for all refugees including the Ukrainians this thread should be deleted.

The lack of sympathy for Ukrainians is disturbing.

That's not what the op is saying at all. She is talking about the differences in people's responses.

I'm white and I'm truly shocked. The way people are responding to the Ukrainian war is the way that I expected us to respond to all the wars and crisis. I don't think that we shouldn't help Ukrainians, on the contrary, but that we should treat everyone like we are treating them.

There has been a community sponsorship scheme for refugees for some time but it is extremely bureaucratic with community sponsorship groups having to raise £9000+ and provide housing for families. Very few people have benefitted from this over the past 5 years.

There are also groups such as Refugees at Home where people can offer a spare room.

@gonnagetgoing and @lookforthesun:
The question isn't about refugees vs economic migrants. It's about refugees from one place vs refugees from somewhere else.

Over the years working in the 3rd sector in homelessness I can say I have supported and housed many refugee families.

I have supported Christians fleeing Iraq, women fleeing Africa, families fleeing Syria.

One thing they all had in common, none of them were white.

It's not that we the UK have never supported BAME people, they have just trickled through the system bit by bit, as their paperwork cleared, quietly and consistently.

Problem we have with Ukraine is it is the worst humanitarian crisis of refugees in modern history. 3 million to date have fled Ukraine, that's like the population of Wales leaving Wales in a fortnight, so more media coverage is needed more help, because of the sheer volume. Moldova is at breaking point. Poland isn't far behind. We have to publicise it more, to get more help.

I really don't think that the UK are welcoming Ukrainians with wide open arms but other European countries are. Germany opened their country to refuges from Syria and Iraq and they are now welcoming their Eastern European neighbours.

Saying that I do think the general population feels differently about people coming to the UK from the regions you mentioned OP. I think it's to do with sharing more similar cultural roots but only just. Ukrainians who come here will experience the full on xenophobia and racism British people outside of cities tend to display. They broken English will be looked down on and there will be many sad incidents of hostility. Generally speaking I do think that people are more amenable to welcoming women and children at least in theory. I think in practice that will all be very difficult for all involved.

@Bettycrocker7

Israel is ready to accept 25000 refugees from Ukraine and have already accepted a huge ammount of refugees in the last few weeks.

And despite Isreal regularly breaking international law and creating plenty of Palestinian suffering, the western world is happy to call them an ally. Yet when Russia does to white people what Isreal does to Palestinians, the world starts falling over itself to try and make it stop.