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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Emily Oster on Breastfeeding - minimal benefits.

822 replies

IamOvercome · 14/03/2022 13:02

I am pregnant with my first and am an economist so I was recommended books by fellow economist Emily Oster. The books don’t give advice. They review the statistical studies underlying pregnancy advice and whether they are any good or not.

It’s been such an eye opener. For example it is pushed pushed and pushed some more that breast is best. But when you review the evidence there is minimal evidence for benefits of breastfeeding for babies. The strongest evidence is actually for mothers that it can marginally reduce chance of breast cancer in later life.

Same with not introducing babies to bottle to confuse them when breastfeeding. Literally no concrete evidence for it.

Yet this is all pushed as clear cut facts by midwives and other health professionals.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
luxxlisbon · 14/03/2022 14:33

I find it interesting that people try to claim having to deal with the “faff” of sterilising a few bottles once a day and making it seem like that is more work than having to do every single feed day or night.

I have no real stake in bf vs bottle feeding as I prefer combi but I had I infinitely more time once I included formula even after accounting for the 5 mins it took to sterilise some bottles.

Qwill · 14/03/2022 14:33

I did both and found bottles easier and cheaper - I didn’t get out of bed at night either bottle or breastfeeding!! Felt bonded with both babies. I think it’s up to the individual as the health benefits like you say are marginal. It’s a very emotive subject and sometimes the pressure of choosing either one (although in some cases not a choice), can have a detrimental effect on the mother.

IamOvercome · 14/03/2022 14:34

@bigbluebear1

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding/benefits/

it’s right there:

“Breastfeeding has long-term benefits for your baby, lasting right into adulthood.

Any amount of breast milk has a positive effect. The longer you breastfeed, the longer the protection lasts and the greater the benefits.

Breastfeeding can help to reduce your baby's risk of:

infections, with fewer visits to hospital as a result
diarrhoea and vomiting, with fewer visits to hospital as a result
sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)
obesity
cardiovascular disease in adulthood
Some studies have also found that breastfeeding for at least 6 months may reduce your baby's chance of getting childhood leukaemia.”

but yeah, cow & gate is no different right? Hmm

Sorry that’s a summary page. What data is it based on? What controls were used and how was the study set up?
OP posts:
bigbluebear1 · 14/03/2022 14:35

@LittleGwyneth

I think what EO understands, which isn't always pointed out, is that in the Western world, especially in the US where she is based, being able to breastfeed beyond the first couple of months hinges on so much other privilege. If you you breastfeed your baby for a year it means that you've been able to take a year at home with your baby, which in turn often means that you've got probably got more money and more support.

Middle class mothers are more likely to breastfeed for a multitude of reasons, which clouded the data about outcomes for a long time.

I really enjoyed Expecting Better in the sense that I felt it was free from judgement. I understand that some parents feel that it undermines their achievement in breastfeeding but I really don't think that is the intention.

that’s not true, i’ve breastfed for nearly a year now and finished maternity leave nearly three months ago. pumping exists, as does giving baby solids and water when they’re hungry
LittleGwyneth · 14/03/2022 14:35

@bigbluebear1

if you don’t want to breastfeed you don’t have to. you don’t have to convince yourself it’s just as good for baby to formula feed as it is to breastfeed - breast IS best, but you don’t need a book saying it isn’t to make you feel better about your choice. just do whatever you want with your baby.
What does 'best' mean? Breast is amazing, but it's not best if it's making the mother utterly miserable and hate parenting. And it's not 'best' if you look at long term educational and health outcomes. It can 100% be best for you and your baby, and that is wonderful. But there is no objective best when it comes to babies.
uptonogoode · 14/03/2022 14:35

@beattieedny that's really sad you feel less bonded to the child you didn't breast feed. Fingers crossed they never learn you feel like that..

Peasock · 14/03/2022 14:35

Having seen how miserable my babies were with D&V when I stopped BF to send them to nursery I don't think any other incentive is needed

Do you think breastfeeding would have stopped them getting D&V?

Strawmite · 14/03/2022 14:36

@beattieedny

I've done both breast and bottle and breast was way easier and I remain more bonded with the breast fed child many years on. There's also just the simple fact that we have breasts to feed babies. Of course do what you want, but the idea human experience can be boiled down solely to measurable outcomes (which are purely materialist in nature) alone is such an impoverished way to look at life.
I remain more bonded with the breast fed child many years on

This makes me so sad. I have two beautiful DC and one I managed to bf and one I had to bottle feed. The bond with both is amazing and nothing to do with the feeding method. I (personally) find when people talk about the bond, especially FTP they conflate BF with the amazing bond you have with your baby. BF for me made no difference and it would break my heart to feel more bonded to one than another forever for that reason.

lifeuphigh · 14/03/2022 14:36

*No real difference between breastfed and bottle fed babies has been shown in any study once other factors are controlled for

This is key. Well no study I have come across. If someone has found one I’d love a link to have a read.*

Well, here's just one example which I found in about 5 minutes doi.org/10.1542/peds.2006-2256

Villagewaspbyke · 14/03/2022 14:36

@BattledoreAndShuttlecock every child gets loads of illness when they first go to nursery. So perhaps it was a coincidence that yours did abs that was the same time you stopped breastfeeding. Perhaps it was to do with coming into contact with viruses and bacteria from other children rather than no more magic breast milk.

Twizbe · 14/03/2022 14:37

@luxxlisbon

I find it interesting that people try to claim having to deal with the “faff” of sterilising a few bottles once a day and making it seem like that is more work than having to do every single feed day or night.

I have no real stake in bf vs bottle feeding as I prefer combi but I had I infinitely more time once I included formula even after accounting for the 5 mins it took to sterilise some bottles.

From my experience combi feeding was more work than exclusively breastfeeding.

I had my babies pre covid so after week 2 when DH was back at work, out of the 14 bottle feeds we did a week, he was only at home for 4 of them.

Tbh I'd got into the rhythm of bottles and feeding so did them all myself anyway and he did other things with our kids.

But this is ok. Every woman experiences baby feeding differently.

For me, breastfeeding was better.

NurseBernard · 14/03/2022 14:37

Breastfeeding is the biological norm. Nothing more, nothing less.

Human milk is designed for human babies.

If you don’t want to breastfeed - all good, you’ll be in great company.

Hardly anyone does breastfeed, especially in the UK.

Formula feeding is the prevalent means of feeding infants, babies and toddlers. The one thing you will not be, if you choose to formula feed, is alone.

KnowingMeKnowingYouAhaaaa · 14/03/2022 14:38

Don't breastfeed then if your book says there is little benefit. For me it saved time, money, hassle and it comforts like nothing else. Anecdotal but none of my children have any allergies and between the 3 of them only 1 has been to the doctors once since birth. Great I've lowered my chances of breast cancer too.

Seeingadistance · 14/03/2022 14:38

@Babdoc

The real benefits of breast feeding only apply in the third world, where formula is made up with dirty water from unchlorinated sources, causing diarrhoea and deaths in infants. Here in the UK, it makes damn all difference, and as a doctor I am delighted that a credible statistician has finally published this. Perhaps we can now see the end of poor depressed mothers beating themselves up for “failing” to breast feed. A mafia of midwives and breast feeding mothers has controlled the narrative for far too long, to the detriment of women. Feed your baby by whatever method best suits you, secure in the knowledge that your way is as good as any other. And don’t let anyone guilt trip or pressure you.
Thank you.
beattieedny · 14/03/2022 14:38

Gonna come back once you've given birth and tell us all about statistics, yeah? Bet you end up feeding him/her until at least two and become evangelical about it. Trust me, the hormones are fucking brilliant. Best high I've had since the illegal raves of the 90s. Es don't have a look in compared to the massive dump of oxytocin you get latching a baby on.

Qwill · 14/03/2022 14:39

Bananabutter
What a load of nonsense, OP.

If you don’t want to breastfeed then don’t. That’s okay. But don’t try and feed yourself a load of rubbish to make yourself feel better about not doing so and alleviate your own personal guilt.“

It’s attitudes like this that do so much damage to mothers. I’m sorry you have such a bitter life that you actively try and make vulnerable new mothers feel guilty.

Twizbe · 14/03/2022 14:39

@NurseBernard

Breastfeeding is the biological norm. Nothing more, nothing less.

Human milk is designed for human babies.

If you don’t want to breastfeed - all good, you’ll be in great company.

Hardly anyone does breastfeed, especially in the UK.

Formula feeding is the prevalent means of feeding infants, babies and toddlers. The one thing you will not be, if you choose to formula feed, is alone.

This.
Bitconfusedhmm · 14/03/2022 14:39

Does she reference colostrum?

Goldbar · 14/03/2022 14:39

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@Nsmum14 - think you have it all wrong. No one is saying breastfeeding is a “bad use of womens time”. The issue is that womens time, effort and work is taken for granted and are not valued.

For example, Women who are having difficulty breastfeeding are told yo stay in a room and breastfeed for 24 hours on demand to establish supply. Never mind they may have other children. Never mind that they may have other things to do. Never mind that this would be exhausting at an already difficult time.

Ultimately exclusively breastfeeding babies is more time consuming and difficult for many if not most women. Often to the point where our lives with young children are utterly exhausting. We matter too. Our mental and physical well being is worth something.[/quote]
Yes, 100%. Many of my friends have had second babies while also having a young toddler (I struggled with no.2, currently pregnant but a couple of years behind them). The reality doesn't seem to be a relaxing, bonding experience but a slightly chaotic situation in which the mobile, attention-seeking toddler comes first (at least when out of the house) which means the screaming, hungry baby has to be thrust aside a lot of the time. It's very stressful for the mother trying to balance their needs. I've held quite a few babies for friends as they rescued or chased their toddlers and (while I'd never comment on or judge anyone's feeding choices) it just is much less stressful if someone else can give your baby a bottle. I have one friend who learnt how to breastfeed her baby in a sling so she could still play with her toddler. We joked that she was Wonderwoman, but it's a bit sad that it's almost always women who are forced to be wonderwomen in this way. They often feel like they don't have enough to give everyone who is making demands of them, so the thought of keeping anything back for themselves is just ludicrous.

I think one of the benefits of breastfeeding is women have to sit down and relax rather than letting other people sit and feed baby while they cook/clean or whatever.

This is very idealised. The reality is that many women will be at home by themselves without help or caring for other children. Even if you're on maternity leave, the school/nursery run needs to be done, meals need to be cooked, the house needs to be tidied and kept clean and the other children need to be cared for. Even with a very helpful OH, a lot of things can't be left until the evening. And if you're still breastfeeding when you go back to work, it's often a hurried feed in the morning while late for the nursery run (or even outside the nursery in the cold, while waiting for it to open) and an exhausted one at the end of the day when there's really not anything much left to give.

I'm not saying breastfeeding isn't a good thing. But I still think it's quite a big ask of mothers and the emphasis on exclusive breastfeeding (with even mixed feeding being viewed as 'failure') can be misplaced if mothers are struggling.

Bananabutter · 14/03/2022 14:40

There’s no point showing OP anything as she’s filled her head with a load of nonsense from an economist no less.

She won’t acknowledge breast is best because she doesn’t want to do it and wants to alleviate herself of the guilt of not doing the best and most natural thing in the world for her child.

There’s a difference between can’t and won’t. If you can’t, that’s okay. If you won’t, well, that’s on you, and there’s a reason you’re trying to convince yourself manmade formula is just as good.

If you were happy and confident in your decision to formula feed you wouldn’t be having to convince yourself and offers it’s okay.

PinkyU · 14/03/2022 14:40

@IamOvercome breastfeeding reduces the risk of SIDS in infants by up to 50%, I’d say that’s pretty beneficial to both mum and baby.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19254976/

Noname1999 · 14/03/2022 14:41

@Danikm151

Antibodies, comfort, less cost. The list of benefits goes on
There's only less cost to breastfeeding if you don't value women's time.
gogohm · 14/03/2022 14:42

As an economist I'm surprised she didn't mention how much cheaper it is to breast feed! Formula is around £11 a can, plus bottles, a steriliser (and electricity to run it) a perfect prep (and electricity) or just use the existing kettle (plus electricity) whereas for breastfeeding I had 2 bras plus a night bra that did both my kids and a 12 pack of reusable breast pads, the breast pads I passed onto my sil after dd2 was weaned.

Forget health, it's solid economics to breastfeed for the first few months ideally at least a year until you can use ordinary cows milk and a sippy cup with no need for sterilising especially if you are able to be on maternity leave for at least most of it

Pumasonsatsumas · 14/03/2022 14:42

What sort of errors have you encountered, out of interest?

LittleGwyneth · 14/03/2022 14:42

@bigbluebear1 The US has no paid maternity leave - at all. Most people are back to work within 12 weeks, which has enormous knock ons for their breastfeeding rates. It's great that you are able to pump enough, but for many women, pumping enough during your non-working hours is an enormous ask, and something they're not able to do. Solids and water are a very different proposition at nine months than at three.