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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping scouts/GGs due to behaviour after

89 replies

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 19:48

DC is 7.

Once per week they do scouts/GGing (I won’t say which and I won’t say which section). They absolutely love it, have earnt loads of badges, done work outside of meetings to get more badges and talk about it all the time.

In theory they should be able to cope with 1 later bedtime per week, but they just don’t. It should only be 1 hour later, but they kick off, shout, scream, bite even when they get home so it can take 3 hours+ to get them into bed. I put them in their room and ignore but they just carry on until my neighbours text me to tell me they can hear them or they’re disturbing their DCs sleep (I live in a block of flats). It’s just getting too much.

Every time I’ve thought about stopping it for that reason I’ve convinced myself not to. They get so much out of it, and their teacher has insisted that they love it and get a lot out of it that I keep thinking no.

They’re not the most academic child, have struggled massively and was unable to access home learning during the lockdowns due to SN but didn’t qualify for a place at school (currently taking the local council to tribunal over their refusal to assess, school have had DC assessed at their own cost but can only go so far but the assessments told us there is SN there). At school although they behave they struggle with the basics; reading, writing and maths, and are still working 2 years below their actual age.

They often tell me “Scouts/GGs is the only thing I’m good at”. They have swimming lessons but are still in Stage 1 with children aged 4 and 5 where most of their friends are stage 4 or 5 or have stopped as finished, so I do want something that is just for them.

For context they do have meltdowns after school sometimes, especially if they’ve found something very hard, so it may not necessarily be related to scouts/GG specifically.

I don’t know what to do, WWYD?

OP posts:
urbanbuddha · 09/03/2022 19:53

Ask the guide/scout leader to have a word with your DD. I'm fairly sure that kind of behaviour is against their code of conduct.

LibrariesGiveUsPower · 09/03/2022 19:53

Your child is 7, does a full day at school then I assume goes around 6 and finishes around 7.30? Then bed wind down and sleep.

I expect they are exhausted, but I wouldn’t take away the one thing they feel they are good at. No way. I’d introduce reward chart for good behaviour after scouts/guides. Your child is motivated by badges, so I’d expect reward charts would motivate them. Reward more punish less, but bite is instant star lost. Also think about bed routine after, what can you do to help them chill out. You need to help them calm down and find a new routine with it.

Clymene · 09/03/2022 19:56

You'd be better off posting this on the special needs boards.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 09/03/2022 19:57

See if there are any other sections on the area with an earlier start/finish time.

Scouts/Guides can be great for children with SEN do i can understand not wanting to stop completely.

User135792468 · 09/03/2022 19:58

That sounds like hard work. What is the normal bedtime and what is it after scouts? Could you try a home made sticker chart breaking down each individual task (put coat and shoes away, brush teeth, put pjs on etc) so they can do the routine quickly and happily put a sticker on every few minutes. Write a specific time for them to be in bed by also. If they don’t do it, then they can’t go the following week. Then the week after, they go and try the sticker chart again.

skgnome · 09/03/2022 20:01

Is there anything on their bedtime that can be taken out on that day? So it’s really come home, unwind 20 mins and go to bed
No bath/shower that day, dinner is done before scouts (at most a quick snack on the way home) - homework/reading is either done before or not that day
I’m assuming other kids in the group are similar ages… also chat with other parents to see how they cope, no doubt, some will have naturally later bedtimes, but still

InaccurateDream · 09/03/2022 20:03

See if she can move. My daughter is in brownies that finishes at 8 but other groups finish at half six I think (just have a longer wait list!)

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:03

@User135792468

That sounds like hard work. What is the normal bedtime and what is it after scouts? Could you try a home made sticker chart breaking down each individual task (put coat and shoes away, brush teeth, put pjs on etc) so they can do the routine quickly and happily put a sticker on every few minutes. Write a specific time for them to be in bed by also. If they don’t do it, then they can’t go the following week. Then the week after, they go and try the sticker chart again.
@User135792468

Usual routine would be
6.55pm Brush Teeth
7.00pm Into bedroom, I'll read a chapter of a book or a short story
7.10pm They get 10 minutes quiet time to find any soft toys, adjust blankets etc
7.20pm lights out

Usually asleep by 7.45pm. I've tried earlier but they sat up singing or talking until 7.45ish anyway.

Some of their friends go to bed at 9pm 2 or 3 times a week, I know I shouldn't compare them to their friends though as most of their friends don't have SN

OP posts:
SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:05

@skgnome

Is there anything on their bedtime that can be taken out on that day? So it’s really come home, unwind 20 mins and go to bed No bath/shower that day, dinner is done before scouts (at most a quick snack on the way home) - homework/reading is either done before or not that day I’m assuming other kids in the group are similar ages… also chat with other parents to see how they cope, no doubt, some will have naturally later bedtimes, but still
@skgnome Baths are done on the nights there are no activities. They don't get homework bar spellings and reading as school said it's too much for them.

Will chat with other parents thats a good idea thank you

OP posts:
2022HereWeCome · 09/03/2022 20:11

OP my DS doesn't do scouts for this very reason. It runs until 8.30 which means he often isn't home until 8.50 and it takes he ages to unwind. He isn't tired afterwards wants to stay up and we struggle to get him to bed. Then there's a knock on effect because he's tired the next day.

After various lockdowns we took stock of our activities and now only do things which fit in with DS. His triggers for poor behaviour are being overtired but brain-awake and/or being hungry. Lots of kids go to activities straight after school having a small snack in the car - DS needs much more food than this and needs to eat extremely regularly. Some of DS friends can go hours without eating ...

Personally I would give the activity as miss for a few weeks and see if the behaviour settles, if it does you know there is cause and effect and then you can either try to make it work with positive behaviour reinforcement or find a similar activity at a time that suits you and your DC.

Rekorderlig88 · 09/03/2022 20:16

Ride it out. I think the benefits outweigh the stress.
It won't be forever

MaizeAmaze · 09/03/2022 20:18

If you have just moved up an age bracket, it should get better. If you are about to move up a group to an even later time, it's going to get harder.
Can you talk to DC about what happens when returning from Scouts? See if they know what triggers the difficult bedtime - I suspect they dont know, however its worth a try.
Is there something you could do between school and scouts to reduce the over tiredness at bedtime? Not a nap, but a quiet half hour, or complete screen fest for a bit?
Is some food needed after the group? Eggs, nuts, wholegrains are supposed to promote sleep.
The comments about seeing if there is a group that starts earlier is a good one.

It sounds like the group is good for them, and so if you can make it work it is worthwhile.
FWIW, DS (who is older) goes to a group that finishes at 9. He normally is reading in bed at that time, but on 9pm finish nights, he actually needs a bit of time chatting once we get in before starting bed. If he goes straight upstairs, its like he never unwinds, and he struggled to sleep. Sitting at the kitchen table, having a glass of water and a chat (even though I've asked about what he did that evening while we were driving home) and he settles much better. He is, and always has been, a sleep dodger tho!

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:23

@MaizeAmaze

If you have just moved up an age bracket, it should get better. If you are about to move up a group to an even later time, it's going to get harder. Can you talk to DC about what happens when returning from Scouts? See if they know what triggers the difficult bedtime - I suspect they dont know, however its worth a try. Is there something you could do between school and scouts to reduce the over tiredness at bedtime? Not a nap, but a quiet half hour, or complete screen fest for a bit? Is some food needed after the group? Eggs, nuts, wholegrains are supposed to promote sleep. The comments about seeing if there is a group that starts earlier is a good one.

It sounds like the group is good for them, and so if you can make it work it is worthwhile.
FWIW, DS (who is older) goes to a group that finishes at 9. He normally is reading in bed at that time, but on 9pm finish nights, he actually needs a bit of time chatting once we get in before starting bed. If he goes straight upstairs, its like he never unwinds, and he struggled to sleep. Sitting at the kitchen table, having a glass of water and a chat (even though I've asked about what he did that evening while we were driving home) and he settles much better. He is, and always has been, a sleep dodger tho!

@MaizeAmaze It's been the same since they started they've been going a year so hasn't got better or worse.
OP posts:
LYSHB · 09/03/2022 20:23

Where is the scout/gg unit held? I know my DD has real issues with halls and the noise of the kids in it and it was too much sensory wise, she kicked off like I’ve never seen before.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:24

@LYSHB

Where is the scout/gg unit held? I know my DD has real issues with halls and the noise of the kids in it and it was too much sensory wise, she kicked off like I’ve never seen before.
@LYSHB It's in a school, not DCs school but another nearby school.
OP posts:
Justkeeppedaling · 09/03/2022 20:26

See if there are any other sections on the area with an earlier start/finish time

If your DC is 7 they'll be at either cubs or Brownies I expect.

GG was experimenting with weekend meetings and holiday meetings , so eg an intensive week (or more) covering several badges in place of the weekly evening meetings.

As an ex Guider, I can tell you that lots of 7 year olds struggle with the timings of Brownie meetings, but they aren't 7 for long and it gets easier as they get older.

There may be some units in your area with earlier start times, though if your child is happy where they are, I'd be reluctant to move them in your shoes.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:28

@Justkeeppedaling

See if there are any other sections on the area with an earlier start/finish time

If your DC is 7 they'll be at either cubs or Brownies I expect.

GG was experimenting with weekend meetings and holiday meetings , so eg an intensive week (or more) covering several badges in place of the weekly evening meetings.

As an ex Guider, I can tell you that lots of 7 year olds struggle with the timings of Brownie meetings, but they aren't 7 for long and it gets easier as they get older.

There may be some units in your area with earlier start times, though if your child is happy where they are, I'd be reluctant to move them in your shoes.

@Justkeeppedaling DC is very happy where they are and loves the meetings, when I've peaked in at the end when picking up they look the happiest I've ever seen them.
OP posts:
thisisscary · 09/03/2022 20:31

I would look at a sensory wind down after scouts. Your DC sounds tired and overstimulated. Scouts can be noisy, bright, busy, lots going on... a lot to deal with for any child let alone one with SN. Think about what calms your child and set up a little routine just for after scouts. Remember it may not be an obvious choice like milk and a cookie, it could be being pushed on a swing, it could be a bath with some soft music, it could be chewy food under a weighted blanket, or 20 minutes of mind numbing screen time.

I'd definitely go with addressing sensory needs rather than looking at it as behaviour.

litlealligator · 09/03/2022 20:33

Can you talk to the guide leader and see if they will play along with there being something like a bedtime badge? That way going home and getting into bed becomes an extension of the guides/scout group for the evening? Perhaps you could set up a chart or similar and get your child to work towards a consistent number of good bedtimes after class? Then they get a slightly unofficial badge for it? It sounds like it's really doing them good so perhaps an alternative approach would work....

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 09/03/2022 20:34

So either Beavers or to end Rainbows about to move up or a young Brownie.

Tough one. Meeting times are rarely in the control of the organisation as it depends on when they can have the hall etc. Eg our Beavers start early which means we can struggle for leaders to get there on time and some kids miss out as parents not back from work but we run straight into Cubs and then Scouts and because of that Scouts finishes at 9 which can be late for the younger ones. My own Cub will be in Scouts after Easter and they usually go to bed around 8.30.

I feel your pain, but I was so struck by your child feeling that it was the only thing they were good at and that alone for their self esteem is worth so much and if you can ride it out a bit longer or find a way to help them cope into they are a bit older and therefore go to sleep later then I think it will be worth it.

Justkeeppedaling · 09/03/2022 20:36

DC is very happy where they are and loves the meetings, when I've peaked in at the end when picking up they look the happiest I've ever seen them.

As an ex Guider, that warms my heart.

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 09/03/2022 20:38

If scouting by the way then of they have not done their personal challenge award that night be something to try? They need to come up with a challenge of their own and have one set by a leader. I'm sure the leader would be happy to suggest going to bed nicely as a challenge!

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:39

@litlealligator

Can you talk to the guide leader and see if they will play along with there being something like a bedtime badge? That way going home and getting into bed becomes an extension of the guides/scout group for the evening? Perhaps you could set up a chart or similar and get your child to work towards a consistent number of good bedtimes after class? Then they get a slightly unofficial badge for it? It sounds like it's really doing them good so perhaps an alternative approach would work....
@litlealligator Interesting idea but that could work, thank you will have a chat to the leaders!
OP posts:
Emmelina · 09/03/2022 20:39

Can you send a small snack with her to keep her on an even keel? I’m sure the unit won’t object to her taking a short banana break half an hour before hometime!

Elieza · 09/03/2022 20:40

I don’t know if it’s practical (or safe in your area) as I don’t have sen dc, but would walking home instead of the car/bus help settle dc as it would give them time to unwind while tiring them out?

Or would going for a hot chocolate or something in a cafe on the way home settle them down or would that be worse as it’s sugary?