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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping scouts/GGs due to behaviour after

89 replies

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 19:48

DC is 7.

Once per week they do scouts/GGing (I won’t say which and I won’t say which section). They absolutely love it, have earnt loads of badges, done work outside of meetings to get more badges and talk about it all the time.

In theory they should be able to cope with 1 later bedtime per week, but they just don’t. It should only be 1 hour later, but they kick off, shout, scream, bite even when they get home so it can take 3 hours+ to get them into bed. I put them in their room and ignore but they just carry on until my neighbours text me to tell me they can hear them or they’re disturbing their DCs sleep (I live in a block of flats). It’s just getting too much.

Every time I’ve thought about stopping it for that reason I’ve convinced myself not to. They get so much out of it, and their teacher has insisted that they love it and get a lot out of it that I keep thinking no.

They’re not the most academic child, have struggled massively and was unable to access home learning during the lockdowns due to SN but didn’t qualify for a place at school (currently taking the local council to tribunal over their refusal to assess, school have had DC assessed at their own cost but can only go so far but the assessments told us there is SN there). At school although they behave they struggle with the basics; reading, writing and maths, and are still working 2 years below their actual age.

They often tell me “Scouts/GGs is the only thing I’m good at”. They have swimming lessons but are still in Stage 1 with children aged 4 and 5 where most of their friends are stage 4 or 5 or have stopped as finished, so I do want something that is just for them.

For context they do have meltdowns after school sometimes, especially if they’ve found something very hard, so it may not necessarily be related to scouts/GG specifically.

I don’t know what to do, WWYD?

OP posts:
reluctantbrit · 10/03/2022 17:45

Definitely have a chat with the leader. DD is an Explorer and helps with the Beavers as part of the Chief Scout Award. During Spring/Summer last year the Beavers did quite a lot of badges as they caught up after months of zoom meetings so they did more than on non-pandemic times. It has levelled out now.

So it could be that your child just had quite a lot of catch up and the leader is back to normal.

The leader could explain how badges work, that sometimes it takes several meetings to do them.

Bedtime was often an issue, DD is a creature of habit and the late night for Brownie, then Scouts and now Explorer do have an effect on sleep and it always takes a while to wind down. Is there a way to help her unwind like a meditation track or an audiobook where she can listen for one chapter?

Cryingbutstilltrying · 10/03/2022 20:52

How do they give out the badges? For my unit I have one badge giving ceremony at the last meeting of term. I let the girls know when they have completed things or if they have bits left to do throughout the term, but this way I’ve found it means every child gets at least 1 badge even if they’ve not done extra at home and avoids the inevitable complaining week after week. The girls seem to accept this and I’ve had a few with different needs, it’s made clear that I have to order them so that’s how it is.
If they are given when complete throughout the term that is certainly more tricky and might be handy to discuss with the leaders to see if there’s an option that might work for everyone.
If your dc is still upset each week then I’m not sure, other than keeping reminding them that they’ve done bits of badges each time and some things need to build up and aren’t done just like that. Would preparing themselves ahead of the meeting to ‘probably not get a badge tonight’ help? My sn ds is happy to celebrate others achievements if he knows he’s not expecting anything, it’s the anticipation that he might ‘win’ that causes him issues.
Do school raffles or similar also cause upset?

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 21:03

@Cryingbutstilltrying

How do they give out the badges? For my unit I have one badge giving ceremony at the last meeting of term. I let the girls know when they have completed things or if they have bits left to do throughout the term, but this way I’ve found it means every child gets at least 1 badge even if they’ve not done extra at home and avoids the inevitable complaining week after week. The girls seem to accept this and I’ve had a few with different needs, it’s made clear that I have to order them so that’s how it is. If they are given when complete throughout the term that is certainly more tricky and might be handy to discuss with the leaders to see if there’s an option that might work for everyone. If your dc is still upset each week then I’m not sure, other than keeping reminding them that they’ve done bits of badges each time and some things need to build up and aren’t done just like that. Would preparing themselves ahead of the meeting to ‘probably not get a badge tonight’ help? My sn ds is happy to celebrate others achievements if he knows he’s not expecting anything, it’s the anticipation that he might ‘win’ that causes him issues. Do school raffles or similar also cause upset?
@Cryingbutstilltrying School raffles are different because I buy the tickets and am notified if we win not DC.

They get 1 badge per half term that they've done all together but badges done outside of meetings and special badges are given as they complete them. I do tell them that they probably won't get a badge tonight, but it's ok to be happy for our friends and there is often weeks where no-one gets a badge at all, those seem easier nights I think, so maybe a chat with the leader about that.

We do lots of the badge work for the ones done outside of meetings but it's not every week, because life gets in the way sometimes; we have appointments, or we're tired or we need to go to the shop, or I have a meeting with the teacher, or we're seeing granddad etc.

There has been a run of 4 or so weeks where they've had badges every week though, which won't have helped expectations.

I think I do need to manage those, and show that it's about the taking part and having fun not just the badges. The leaders treat everyone the same whether they have 2 badges or 90.

OP posts:
Gladioli23 · 10/03/2022 21:13

If it helped I imagine the leader might be prepared to do one badge ceremony every half term ? We would definitely have done that as a "reasonable adjustment" when I was a leader - so no one gets a badge until the week before half term when all that half terms badges are given out.

That way everyone feels included and you can set expectations in advance?

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 21:17

@Gladioli23

If it helped I imagine the leader might be prepared to do one badge ceremony every half term ? We would definitely have done that as a "reasonable adjustment" when I was a leader - so no one gets a badge until the week before half term when all that half terms badges are given out.

That way everyone feels included and you can set expectations in advance?

@Gladioli23 Will definitely talk to the leaders about it, they currently basically do that but give our special badges or ones earned outside of meetings as you get them. Could still do special badges like remembrance as they do them though
OP posts:
Gladioli23 · 10/03/2022 21:21

You could also ask them to tell you the week before she is or isn't going to get a badge so you could prep her if that helped. Removing the uncertainty that way.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 21:23

@Gladioli23

You could also ask them to tell you the week before she is or isn't going to get a badge so you could prep her if that helped. Removing the uncertainty that way.
@Gladioli23 I usually know if she's getting a badge because I'll email the leaders when we've done badge work with evidence and they'll email back yes she's getting it or "You need to do a bit more on this"
OP posts:
LittleOwl153 · 10/03/2022 21:27

7 is a tricky age for scouts/guides. (8yr old cub /12yr old SEN guide parent and Brownie leader here)
I'm going to guess your child is either about to move from Rainbows to Brownies or is nearer 8 and about to go to Cubs? The reason I say this they often struggle when they are ready to move on. Lots of finishing up badges ready to move on so lots of badges around - and a bit more confidence to say something.
Or alternatively at 7 a new Brownie who is struggling to adjust to later time and masks her nervous energy amongst the older girls which comes out at home.

Either way it's challenging. So from my perspective things to try... walk home - or go for a walk once you get home. Round the block probably is enough at that age. I always walked mine home gives the mind time to calm. Time to chill rather than straight to bed when you get in. My eldest should be in bed when guides finishes a 915. However she is wired when she gets in so 10 mins TV, talking, reading does the world of good (after the walk home).

But as a SEN child particularly if they can stick at it scouting/Guiding has alot to offer as it does work in lots of different skill areas to school.

On the swimming front does the pool they go to do lesson every day crash courses in the school holidays? It will likely cost you the equivalent of a month's lessons for 1 week but made a massive difference to mine. Also have a loom around for train the teacher type sessions as these are often very cheap and they swim every day for a week. Etc.

Likes badges... try Blue Peter badges? There's lots of them she can try for making a bit of effort with stuff she probably already does. Draw a picture of you doing X, write about when you did Y.
Or onestopscouting do a set of badges you could set her tasks for... www.onestopscouting.co.uk/blanket-badges/home---set-of-10-badges

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 21:29

[quote LittleOwl153]7 is a tricky age for scouts/guides. (8yr old cub /12yr old SEN guide parent and Brownie leader here)
I'm going to guess your child is either about to move from Rainbows to Brownies or is nearer 8 and about to go to Cubs? The reason I say this they often struggle when they are ready to move on. Lots of finishing up badges ready to move on so lots of badges around - and a bit more confidence to say something.
Or alternatively at 7 a new Brownie who is struggling to adjust to later time and masks her nervous energy amongst the older girls which comes out at home.

Either way it's challenging. So from my perspective things to try... walk home - or go for a walk once you get home. Round the block probably is enough at that age. I always walked mine home gives the mind time to calm. Time to chill rather than straight to bed when you get in. My eldest should be in bed when guides finishes a 915. However she is wired when she gets in so 10 mins TV, talking, reading does the world of good (after the walk home).

But as a SEN child particularly if they can stick at it scouting/Guiding has alot to offer as it does work in lots of different skill areas to school.

On the swimming front does the pool they go to do lesson every day crash courses in the school holidays? It will likely cost you the equivalent of a month's lessons for 1 week but made a massive difference to mine. Also have a loom around for train the teacher type sessions as these are often very cheap and they swim every day for a week. Etc.

Likes badges... try Blue Peter badges? There's lots of them she can try for making a bit of effort with stuff she probably already does. Draw a picture of you doing X, write about when you did Y.
Or onestopscouting do a set of badges you could set her tasks for... www.onestopscouting.co.uk/blanket-badges/home---set-of-10-badges[/quote]
@LittleOwl153 They do 1-1 intensive lessons but it's a months swimming lessons cost for just 1 session so I'll only be able to pay for 1 maybe 2.

OP posts:
waterrat · 10/03/2022 21:31

Hi op. My daughter has asd and can get like this. As someone said its huge sensory experience and also they will be on their best behaviour if they really love it. They will be letting it all out at home.

Controversial suggestion could you accept an even later bedtime and just let them really wind down slowly don't try to force sleep?

I would not stop them doing it it sounds really beneficial. Being a bit tired ir over stimulated once a week is manageable. I know how tough it is to see your child like this though but I think children really benefit from having a life outside school

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 21:40

@waterrat

Hi op. My daughter has asd and can get like this. As someone said its huge sensory experience and also they will be on their best behaviour if they really love it. They will be letting it all out at home.

Controversial suggestion could you accept an even later bedtime and just let them really wind down slowly don't try to force sleep?

I would not stop them doing it it sounds really beneficial. Being a bit tired ir over stimulated once a week is manageable. I know how tough it is to see your child like this though but I think children really benefit from having a life outside school

@waterrat My concern is she's very hard to wake on the morning after for school, and then we're in a rush to get to school as she's woken later and then has an awful day at school so it#s the knock on affect, I suppose I could say we'll forget bedtime on that night if she gets up ok without a fuss (I can probably leave her an extra half hour in the mornings).
OP posts:
LittleOwl153 · 10/03/2022 22:24

They do 1-1 intensive lessons but it's a months swimming lessons cost for just 1 session so I'll only be able to pay for 1 maybe 2.

Ah now our centre does the usual class type - so 6/8/10 kids dependant on stage but they swim every day for a week. They are I think the same cost per lesson as their usual weekly class lessons but you are obviously paying for 5 in a week.

I'm less enthusiastic about 1to1 lessons as I think they can be too intensive especially for little ones. Great for the older ones who need to get over a specific hurdle.

TirednessButHappiness · 11/03/2022 00:06

I feel your pain OP as we have similar but unfortunately I’m at a loss so have no advice for you.

DD (6) loves Rainbows and it’s on quite early 4.30-5.30 but she is absolutely hyper and manic afterwards and we have to give her loads of support to calm down otherwise she just completely loses it.

We’ve thought about stopping her going but really don’t want to as she enjoys it and we don’t want to punish her for something that I really don’t think she can control.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 16/03/2022 18:59

Update

Last night was loads better, we walked home and splashed in all the puddles that we could see (it was dark).

Then a TV programme of their choice when we got home with a glass of milk and a banana.

There was still a few tears at bedtime but it was so much better that it normally is!

Thank you everyone.

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