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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping scouts/GGs due to behaviour after

89 replies

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 19:48

DC is 7.

Once per week they do scouts/GGing (I won’t say which and I won’t say which section). They absolutely love it, have earnt loads of badges, done work outside of meetings to get more badges and talk about it all the time.

In theory they should be able to cope with 1 later bedtime per week, but they just don’t. It should only be 1 hour later, but they kick off, shout, scream, bite even when they get home so it can take 3 hours+ to get them into bed. I put them in their room and ignore but they just carry on until my neighbours text me to tell me they can hear them or they’re disturbing their DCs sleep (I live in a block of flats). It’s just getting too much.

Every time I’ve thought about stopping it for that reason I’ve convinced myself not to. They get so much out of it, and their teacher has insisted that they love it and get a lot out of it that I keep thinking no.

They’re not the most academic child, have struggled massively and was unable to access home learning during the lockdowns due to SN but didn’t qualify for a place at school (currently taking the local council to tribunal over their refusal to assess, school have had DC assessed at their own cost but can only go so far but the assessments told us there is SN there). At school although they behave they struggle with the basics; reading, writing and maths, and are still working 2 years below their actual age.

They often tell me “Scouts/GGs is the only thing I’m good at”. They have swimming lessons but are still in Stage 1 with children aged 4 and 5 where most of their friends are stage 4 or 5 or have stopped as finished, so I do want something that is just for them.

For context they do have meltdowns after school sometimes, especially if they’ve found something very hard, so it may not necessarily be related to scouts/GG specifically.

I don’t know what to do, WWYD?

OP posts:
2bazookas · 09/03/2022 23:16

I'd explain to the child that if they want to keep going to scouts, they have to stop this nonsense carry-on afterwards.
If they keep playing up after it, no more scouts. Their choice.

Mariposista · 09/03/2022 23:18

It sounds like they get a huge amount out of this activity. Perhaps bringing them home while they are on a high form the games and activities and attempting bed straight away is just a recipe for failure. Could you try some transition time when you get home, a calm activity for half an hour, like reading, or discussing what they did at Scouts over a hot drink? Stop clock watching - better in bed calmly an hour later than a 3 hour battle with everyone wound up.
I say this as an adult who has no choice but to train (I'm a competition swimmer) until 2230 while working full time - if I came home and tried to go to bed immediately, I wouldn't sleep. Nor will a child! I come home and do something like read, yoga or listen to music, and 30 mins later, I'm ready. Good luck!

lanthanum · 09/03/2022 23:33

@Elieza

I don’t know if it’s practical (or safe in your area) as I don’t have sen dc, but would walking home instead of the car/bus help settle dc as it would give them time to unwind while tiring them out?

Or would going for a hot chocolate or something in a cafe on the way home settle them down or would that be worse as it’s sugary?

Interesting. I used to bring DD home by car from a late-finishing activity as I reckoned that 15 minutes walk in the cold might wake her up rather than calm her down. On the other hand, that was from a rather sedate and adult-dominated activity, so we were starting from calm. In this case you're probably starting from excited, so maybe it would work.

If you're going to try out a different bedtime routine, make sure you talk with her about it in advance, at a time when she's in a good mood, and make sure she's on board with the plan.

AnotherNC22 · 09/03/2022 23:47

Rainbow / brownie leader here - sadly we have had girls leave our group due to the 7pm finish interfering with bedtime but unfortunately we can't offer any other time at the minute due to hall + leader availability. So it certainly isn't an uncommon issue. What i have done in those cases is find the child a place in a unit on a Friday so that the later bedtime can be partially offset by fewer pressures on the Sat am. Do you live in a place where there are multiple units or is it a "one village, one unit" type of scenario?

I would also recommend (as pp have said) discussing with the group leaders. I had a few years of a very high spirited (!) group. We introduced some mindfulness colouring at start and end of each meeting to calm everyone down or for the little ones, a game of sleeping lions. Maybe they would be willing to consider trialling something like this for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference?

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/03/2022 04:20

I love the whispering idea.

The clocks are changing soon. Can you see if staying on GMT will help? Your dc would then be going to bed an hour later as a matter of course.

I know all children are different and my dd doesn’t have additional needs, but was very routine driven when younger. As she got older, she became a lot more flexible so perhaps things will settle. Children do generally slowly start to need less sleep so you may naturally overcome this hurdle.

Nat6999 · 10/03/2022 04:37

Is dc being assessed for autism or adhd? It sounds like sensory overload. Imagine a bottle of fizzy pop being shook up all day & then taking the cap off, they may be battling all day to appear normal & when they come home all the suppressed feelings come out as home is their safe space. Have you asked for melatonin to be prescribed? If not have you tried a warm milky drink? Horlicks or hot chocolate, a snack & an hour of quiet activity, reading a book or being read to, make it a treat for them to wind down, have you asked them what they feel like when they are having the meltdown? If they can't put it in to words, can they draw a picture?

sashh · 10/03/2022 06:22

As an adult if I've done an evening class or a sport I'm always more awake after I get home.

I think having a special after brownies/cubs routine might help.

If you can get your child fed before the club then drop them off.

Make the bedroom 'special' fairly lights on a timer, a flask of hot chocolate or warm milk and a snack.

When you come in DC gets ready for bed and gets into bed, then you share the hot chocolate while DC tells you what happened today or you could write a diary together, DC's brain is still working but their body is getting ready for sleep.

Once the fairly lights go out it is sleep time (hence putting them on a timer).

I don't know if anyone else has said this yet, but, you are doing a fab job.

Tonsiltrouble · 10/03/2022 06:33

My 7yo is like this after beavers. He loves it so much, clearly gets an awful lot out of it. He’s in a fantastic colony with a great leader and they do so much cool and interesting stuff. It takes him much longer to go to sleep on a Wednesday and we have had to accept that Wednesday night is a dead loss for us. He is getting a bit better though perhaps.

DoobryWhatsit · 10/03/2022 06:43

Would your leader be flexible about letting them go every other week for the time being? I agree with PP that these later night become less of an issue as they get older.

Instead of hours of screaming, I wonder whether you and your child can come to a compromise where they're allowed to watch one 30.min programme whilst having a snack, with the understanding that they then go to bed without a fuss? I find that if I try to rush bedtime at all (when we're already late) then it's completely counter productive.

OneInEight · 10/03/2022 07:24

We found that the start and end of the session was chaotic and wound both ds's up considerably (both with an ASC) but worked out if we dropped off late (with leaders permission) all went much more smoothly. We also made the leader's aware of the ds's issues so they could watch out and give them the opportunity to have a calm down if needed.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 08:20

So a chat with DC today seems that its to do with not getting badges every week, they feel frustrated with not getting badges all the time.

I've explained its not about that but they don't get it and keep saying "Well what if I did get badges all the time?" and asking me why they don't.

So I do need to have a think about whether its the right activity for them Confused

OP posts:
Aroundtheworldin80moves · 10/03/2022 08:34

Do you have a badge book? Could they tick off the various criteria every week so they can see how they are progressing? (Beaver badges are done over several weeks/months usually, there is the odd one that can be done in one week but not many!)

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 08:36

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Do you have a badge book? Could they tick off the various criteria every week so they can see how they are progressing? (Beaver badges are done over several weeks/months usually, there is the odd one that can be done in one week but not many!)
@Aroundtheworldin80moves Yes and we do tick them off as we do them but they just keep saying "But I want more badges, now"
OP posts:
HollowTalk · 10/03/2022 08:37

@2bazookas

I'd explain to the child that if they want to keep going to scouts, they have to stop this nonsense carry-on afterwards. If they keep playing up after it, no more scouts. Their choice.
You win the prize for the worst advice ever!
MMAMPWGHAP · 10/03/2022 09:03

Can you introduce some ‘badges’ at home. Advanced versions of the scouting ones. Could incorporate eg sorting the recycling, cooking scrambled egg or whatever.

2022HereWeCome · 10/03/2022 10:30

Umm the badge thing puts a different complexion on it for me. It's really hard but I would begin to look around for something that doesn't focus on progressive achievements. You said your DC is struggling with swimming because they are upset they are still in group 1 rather than a more advanced group which means they are struggling with competitiveness and realising they may not be the best amongst their peers at something.

I've noticed it's all become a lot more competitive amongst DS and his friends (age 8) and it is more of a big deal not to be at the same level. Our best activity is drama - focus on fun and games and trying new things - eg different ways of communicating such as sign language. No badges, no stickers, no different level groups.

Beamur · 10/03/2022 10:42

@LibrariesGiveUsPower

Also talk to the leader to see if they can do an assessment to help, DD started brownies recently and we had to do an assessment for her for something else, but the questionnaire was obviously designed with supporting SEN in mind.
This. All girls with SEN in the Guides and Rangers units, presumably Brownies too, that I know do this. Leaders can tailor aspects of the meeting to suit - examples already on this thread, such as arriving slightly later, leaving earlier if the drop off mayhem is too stimulating. Maybe not attending every week. Leaders could maybe let you know what activities are being done so you could opt out. I think these groups are a great leveller. Personal achievement is not benchmarked against others and the programme can be varied to suit a wide range of needs and abilities.
Dixiechickonhols · 10/03/2022 11:21

Would child listen to Leader if leader explained about badges. Obviously they do badges but not every week and they can work on badges independently. But the point isn’t to be doing badges all the time it’s to try new things, make friends and have fun.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 14:07

Will have a chat with the leaders and see what they say. They are aware of the SN but never has been any kind of assessment. So it's worth mentioning.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 10/03/2022 14:54

With the swimming you could see if anyone offers 1:1 lessons at the pool. Iv 3 dc and 1 struggled massively in group lessons but as soon as started 1:1 they came on massively as instructor was in the water with them to correct and encourage

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 15:00

@Hankunamatata

With the swimming you could see if anyone offers 1:1 lessons at the pool. Iv 3 dc and 1 struggled massively in group lessons but as soon as started 1:1 they came on massively as instructor was in the water with them to correct and encourage
@Hankunamatata There is 1-1 sessions and I was going to sign her up for a couple over Easter but I can only afford 1 or 2, but it should help, she's very close to stage 2.
OP posts:
Rosehugger · 10/03/2022 15:03

What would they be like if they had a later but more relaxed bedtime just that evening, so allowing time to wind down?

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 10/03/2022 16:06

@Rosehugger

What would they be like if they had a later but more relaxed bedtime just that evening, so allowing time to wind down?
@Rosehugger They;ve always been one to need lots of sleep, so probably difficult to wake up for school the next day.
OP posts:
BlackishTulips · 10/03/2022 16:53

I think the focus of achieving goals does tie in with competitiveness. I would be worried that self esteem is gradually being worn down over time at school, and the scouts opportunity she attends is a bit different, in that the goals are More achievable. But it doesn’t really challenge the premise that you have to achieve in order to be happy. I would Be looking for a less structured and more responsive sort of activity. I won’t make suggestions as I have no idea what is available in your area.

WhatTheWhoTheWhatThe · 10/03/2022 17:24

Sounds like the uncertainty of when badges are given is a source of anxiety. Maybe the leader can help create a termly schedule of when there will be badges given. Maybe a social story explaining all the wonderful things that happen at scouts including these are the things that happen every week and these are the things that happen every x number of weeks (like badges).
If you have a particularly understanding leader they could greet your child with a little schedule of what’s happening that evening and include whether or not there will be badges so they know what to expect.

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