Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping scouts/GGs due to behaviour after

89 replies

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 19:48

DC is 7.

Once per week they do scouts/GGing (I won’t say which and I won’t say which section). They absolutely love it, have earnt loads of badges, done work outside of meetings to get more badges and talk about it all the time.

In theory they should be able to cope with 1 later bedtime per week, but they just don’t. It should only be 1 hour later, but they kick off, shout, scream, bite even when they get home so it can take 3 hours+ to get them into bed. I put them in their room and ignore but they just carry on until my neighbours text me to tell me they can hear them or they’re disturbing their DCs sleep (I live in a block of flats). It’s just getting too much.

Every time I’ve thought about stopping it for that reason I’ve convinced myself not to. They get so much out of it, and their teacher has insisted that they love it and get a lot out of it that I keep thinking no.

They’re not the most academic child, have struggled massively and was unable to access home learning during the lockdowns due to SN but didn’t qualify for a place at school (currently taking the local council to tribunal over their refusal to assess, school have had DC assessed at their own cost but can only go so far but the assessments told us there is SN there). At school although they behave they struggle with the basics; reading, writing and maths, and are still working 2 years below their actual age.

They often tell me “Scouts/GGs is the only thing I’m good at”. They have swimming lessons but are still in Stage 1 with children aged 4 and 5 where most of their friends are stage 4 or 5 or have stopped as finished, so I do want something that is just for them.

For context they do have meltdowns after school sometimes, especially if they’ve found something very hard, so it may not necessarily be related to scouts/GG specifically.

I don’t know what to do, WWYD?

OP posts:
DelphiniumBlue · 09/03/2022 20:40

You've had some sensible advice about the post-scout bedtime routine, and I wonder if there is anything you can do before hand, as well. If tiredness is an issue, can they have at least some quiet time, if not a nap, before they go?

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:41

@OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea

So either Beavers or to end Rainbows about to move up or a young Brownie.

Tough one. Meeting times are rarely in the control of the organisation as it depends on when they can have the hall etc. Eg our Beavers start early which means we can struggle for leaders to get there on time and some kids miss out as parents not back from work but we run straight into Cubs and then Scouts and because of that Scouts finishes at 9 which can be late for the younger ones. My own Cub will be in Scouts after Easter and they usually go to bed around 8.30.

I feel your pain, but I was so struck by your child feeling that it was the only thing they were good at and that alone for their self esteem is worth so much and if you can ride it out a bit longer or find a way to help them cope into they are a bit older and therefore go to sleep later then I think it will be worth it.

@OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea but I was so struck by your child feeling that it was the only thing they were good at and that alone for their self esteem is worth so much

This is why I've been so hesistant to stop it, DC loves going and talks about it all the time. The class teacher says DC gets so much out of it, which for a child who doesn't like school is massive.

OP posts:
50DaysAF · 09/03/2022 20:42

I wouldn’t take away the one thing they feel they are good at. No way.
I agree.
My child is the same age and also attends a club of this nature that finishes at 7.30. They are usually in bed by this time on every other night of the week. If it helps, a condition of attending the club in our house is pj’s, teeth and bed when they get home. Straight to bed. They know this is the deal and they’ve agreed to that.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:43

@Elieza

I don’t know if it’s practical (or safe in your area) as I don’t have sen dc, but would walking home instead of the car/bus help settle dc as it would give them time to unwind while tiring them out?

Or would going for a hot chocolate or something in a cafe on the way home settle them down or would that be worse as it’s sugary?

@Elieza In the summer term we usually walk home, but it's just a little bit too dark at the moment as the school it's in is down a lane with no pavement. Few more weeks and I can test that theory out though.
OP posts:
Whybirdwhy · 09/03/2022 20:50

I have an autistic child. I get how hard this must be as my child is similar. I agree with PP it sounds like over stimulation and change of routine rather than tiredness and addressing the sensory needs might help.

My child find that it really helps to lay in a dark room with a sensory light and sounds on, sometimes chewing a toy or sometimes just reading and listening to a CD.

Whybirdwhy · 09/03/2022 20:51

And yes, the 10 min walk home in the fresh air does help a bit too.

sillysmiles · 09/03/2022 20:56

DC is very happy where they are and loves the meetings, when I've peaked in at the end when picking up they look the happiest I've ever seen them.

I don't know what the answer is, but I honestly don't think you can pull them out of the thing that makes him happy and the only thing they feel they are good at.

Maybe instead of straight to bed they get to stay up a little and decompress.
The only thing I could equate it to would be when I waitress. You got home late and were wrecked but still needed a cup of tea and to lie with my legs up against the wall before going to bed.

Is there any form of short meditation or breathing techniques you could use to help them decompress.

They must love it and be so wound up from an activity where for 1 hr a week they feel like they are good at something.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 20:59

Thank you everyone, I think you're all right that taking DC out of the activity could do more harm than good and I just need to find a way to help them regulate after it.

Will definitely use some of the suggestions here.

Thank you

OP posts:
mumwon · 09/03/2022 21:07

maybe give them a bath anyway & see if it makes any difference

BogRollBOGOF · 09/03/2022 21:09

DS has ASD and is particularly sensory. If he's struggling to settle at night, he loves walks. We've got woods nearby and loves being in there with a torch as it's so quiet and feels quite cocooned. He enjoys walking at night more than the day!

There clearly are a lot of benefits to DC maintaining the activity.

godmum56 · 09/03/2022 21:20

re the bed tme badge thing....I wonder if other parents would find it useful too?

Instawhat · 09/03/2022 21:25

I have one DC with SN and one without (9). We also had the same massive tantrums, shouting and screaming when she got home from her activities. Now she's that bit older, they have tailed off and she is used to it. I don't think you necessarily need to put it down to SN.

On the basis of experience with my DC with SN, I would drop the swimming lessons. It will do no good for her confidence or self worth to see she's in group 1 when her friends are in 4 or whatever. Find a different swim school where no one she knows goes, or look into private lessons.

Keep the activity. It sounds like she really needs it.
I'm wondering if the lack of routine isn't helping things. You said she doesn't bath etc on activity nights, maybe this is unsettling her. How does she cope if you keep the same nightly routine but just start it when you get home instead of at the normal time (I.e. everything is 1 hour later)? From your side, you need to accept it's going to be a tough evening and don't expect any better, she'll also pick up on your reaction. Easier said than done.

Can you talk to the guide leader and see if they will play along with there being something like a bedtime badge? That way going home and getting into bed becomes an extension of the guides/scout group for the evening? Perhaps you could set up a chart or similar and get your child to work towards a consistent number of good bedtimes after class? Then they get a slightly unofficial badge for it? It sounds like it's really doing them good so perhaps an alternative approach would work....
I'm sorry, but I think this is a really bad idea. You will be using something she loves as a hold over her and merging it into something she finds stressful. She will find out you're lying, when she mentions it to the other kids and you will have destroyed her trust both in you and in her safe activity.

Elieza · 09/03/2022 21:29

If they are still high as a kite for a good while would they stay in bed if you read them a story? That way they could unwind and gradually relax as they wouldn’t be jumping about and what have you?

I know it’s a pain in the arse for you to have to go back to what you did for them at a younger age but if it helps calm the situation and was something they enjoyed with a calm theme it could help them switch off and calm down.

You could ‘read a story you wrote to see if they like it’ but it’s more like a meditation.

Like once there was a girl/boy who went on holiday. Blah blah. She walked along the lane to the seaside blah blah then something about walking quietly and listening to the quiet sounds the animals in the hedgerow made and perhaps sitting watching baby bunnies bouncing in and out of the bushes. That kind of gentle thing. And the walk continued and she saw a birds nest and saw the parents feeding the little chicks, blah blah, trees swaying in the breeze, waterfall in a glen, deer in the distance. Etc etc. if you can go on long enough it could help? I’d write it out first to make sure it’s long enough. If you do a few versions they can ask for their favourites one once they get to know them all.

I used to do that. They never made it to the end. I don’t think to this day they knew what happened to the king who had three sons one I did Grin

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 21:33

@Instawhat

I have one DC with SN and one without (9). We also had the same massive tantrums, shouting and screaming when she got home from her activities. Now she's that bit older, they have tailed off and she is used to it. I don't think you necessarily need to put it down to SN.

On the basis of experience with my DC with SN, I would drop the swimming lessons. It will do no good for her confidence or self worth to see she's in group 1 when her friends are in 4 or whatever. Find a different swim school where no one she knows goes, or look into private lessons.

Keep the activity. It sounds like she really needs it.
I'm wondering if the lack of routine isn't helping things. You said she doesn't bath etc on activity nights, maybe this is unsettling her. How does she cope if you keep the same nightly routine but just start it when you get home instead of at the normal time (I.e. everything is 1 hour later)? From your side, you need to accept it's going to be a tough evening and don't expect any better, she'll also pick up on your reaction. Easier said than done.

Can you talk to the guide leader and see if they will play along with there being something like a bedtime badge? That way going home and getting into bed becomes an extension of the guides/scout group for the evening? Perhaps you could set up a chart or similar and get your child to work towards a consistent number of good bedtimes after class? Then they get a slightly unofficial badge for it? It sounds like it's really doing them good so perhaps an alternative approach would work....
I'm sorry, but I think this is a really bad idea. You will be using something she loves as a hold over her and merging it into something she finds stressful. She will find out you're lying, when she mentions it to the other kids and you will have destroyed her trust both in you and in her safe activity.

@Instawhat No private pools nearby, the pool she goes to is the only pool for 10 miles (I live in the a**e end of nowhere, literally the only people who don't live work and go to school here are the teachers!) there's a hotel with a pool but it doesn't run lessons.

She has to do swimming as her school take them in summer term of Year 1 so she's missed out due to covid.

She doesn't bath every other night, the only thing that stays the same is the bedtime routine I mentioned earlier. She's not autistic and copes well with changes, so I can say "Lets go to the shop" straight after school and she manages that, although she does get tired which school think is related to the SN.

OP posts:
Cryingbutstilltrying · 09/03/2022 21:34

I’m a Brownie leader and have a ds age 8 at Cubs who has SN.
I would try everything possible to help keep your child in the organisation. It sounds like they get on great there, are so engaged and value it massively. This can sometimes feed into the triggers as they are either masking or their senses are so overloaded by the end that they just cannot then deal with the tiredness too.
Trying walking home is a great idea.
Having a snack on the way home or as soon as you get in, perhaps something that’s only for that time as a ‘special brownies night treat’.
When they are calm the next day, can you get them to explain what they feel after the meeting? It might give you some ideas to try.
Scouting has the personal challenge badge and brownies has mindfulness which are proper programme badges that might be able to work in with any reward scheme you could consider.
You don’t mention other dc but keeping everything as calm as you can once home, no rushing even though it’s late, stories and bed routine as normal as possible might help.
It’s really hard, I’ve been there too, as they get older bedtime does push back a bit so it’s worth hanging in there as they get so much from the group. Good luck.

SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 21:37

@Elieza

If they are still high as a kite for a good while would they stay in bed if you read them a story? That way they could unwind and gradually relax as they wouldn’t be jumping about and what have you?

I know it’s a pain in the arse for you to have to go back to what you did for them at a younger age but if it helps calm the situation and was something they enjoyed with a calm theme it could help them switch off and calm down.

You could ‘read a story you wrote to see if they like it’ but it’s more like a meditation.

Like once there was a girl/boy who went on holiday. Blah blah. She walked along the lane to the seaside blah blah then something about walking quietly and listening to the quiet sounds the animals in the hedgerow made and perhaps sitting watching baby bunnies bouncing in and out of the bushes. That kind of gentle thing. And the walk continued and she saw a birds nest and saw the parents feeding the little chicks, blah blah, trees swaying in the breeze, waterfall in a glen, deer in the distance. Etc etc. if you can go on long enough it could help? I’d write it out first to make sure it’s long enough. If you do a few versions they can ask for their favourites one once they get to know them all.

I used to do that. They never made it to the end. I don’t think to this day they knew what happened to the king who had three sons one I did Grin

@Elieza I do like that idea, getting them to keep still mind you Grin
OP posts:
SpoilTheirFunMaybe · 09/03/2022 21:38

@Cryingbutstilltrying

I’m a Brownie leader and have a ds age 8 at Cubs who has SN. I would try everything possible to help keep your child in the organisation. It sounds like they get on great there, are so engaged and value it massively. This can sometimes feed into the triggers as they are either masking or their senses are so overloaded by the end that they just cannot then deal with the tiredness too. Trying walking home is a great idea. Having a snack on the way home or as soon as you get in, perhaps something that’s only for that time as a ‘special brownies night treat’. When they are calm the next day, can you get them to explain what they feel after the meeting? It might give you some ideas to try. Scouting has the personal challenge badge and brownies has mindfulness which are proper programme badges that might be able to work in with any reward scheme you could consider. You don’t mention other dc but keeping everything as calm as you can once home, no rushing even though it’s late, stories and bed routine as normal as possible might help. It’s really hard, I’ve been there too, as they get older bedtime does push back a bit so it’s worth hanging in there as they get so much from the group. Good luck.
@Cryingbutstilltrying Only 1 DC, just me and them at home no OH/DH

Thank you for your comments, lots to consider.

OP posts:
topcat2014 · 09/03/2022 21:44

I run Beavers on a Saturday. Not that it helps the OP but it suits our 7 year olds

Whatever00 · 09/03/2022 21:54

Random question but how do you get home? I'm wondering if you could do something calming on the way home. Maybe they are over excited and need to transition into bedtime mode. I'm thinking talking book or calming music. Something that mellows them.

VestaTilley · 09/03/2022 21:58

I wouldn’t take away the only thing they like or say they’re good at, but maybe look for another local GG/Scout group that meets at an earlier time? Do any meet on weekends?

Smashedavacado · 09/03/2022 22:15

I just wanted to say that as a beaver leader of 15+ years I am really pleased to hear that you will persevere. We have had a number of children through our colony with ASD and other additional needs and it's been fantastic to see how they have benefited and enjoyed moving up through the sections.

madeittofriday · 09/03/2022 22:31

Others have suggested similar but can you use a social story or whiteboard planner to 'agree' in advance how the evening will look after cubs has finished.
So expectations are set and DC knows what will happen after they get home - eg small snack agreed on way home (toast, biscuit?) prepared while they get pjs on. Then brush teeth and revert to normal routine. May take a bit longer than normal but not bouncing off the walls for hours.
Walking home always worked much better for us as chance to decompress afterwards.

LibrariesGiveUsPower · 09/03/2022 22:54

Also talk to the leader to see if they can do an assessment to help, DD started brownies recently and we had to do an assessment for her for something else, but the questionnaire was obviously designed with supporting SEN in mind.

Dixiechickonhols · 09/03/2022 23:04

Could you just embrace the late bedtime. I’m imagining you are stressing as it’s late, you know it’s school tomorrow and your dc is over simulated and needs to calm down. So just go with it and don’t try to get them in bed, do a chilling out routine and ignore clock. Even if they go to bed at 10pm if they will then settle it’s better than current situation. It seems such a positive activity for them.

Dottdoo · 09/03/2022 23:04

This might sound ridiculous but it's what my parents did with us as kids. We'd speak in whispers every time we were coming home late from somewhere. Even in the car on the way back. Looking back, my parents did that to subsconsciously start winding us down for bed. We'd get home and it was all talking quietly, only lamps would be put on - no big lights etc etc. It was really effective. I remember hushed whispers 'ssshhhh upstairs now and get your pjs on' and I'd be creeping around. It sets the scene up and somehow you just know noise is off limits.

Maybe during the time DC is at their activity you could prep your place by drawing all the curtains, get the house feeling cosy, put a little lamp on in the bedroom and on your walk or drive home just start speaking very quietly and softly. Lots of ssshhh it's late people are going to bed - especially if you're in a flat you can creep in and start with 'the neighbours have said they're sleeping', we have to be quiet.

It's just a little way to help with the wind down process from the moment you pick them up.

Might not work but it's just a little thing to try on top of some of the better ideas people have mentioned Smile