Diocese banning visit from gay author and sacking governors that approved it

[gymgymgo]

The Archdiocese of Southwark over-ruled one of its own headteachers and is sacking some governors because they approved the visit of a children's author who writes books about fictional gay characters. They've said the visit is "outside the scope of what is permissible in a Catholic school". The school's chaplain has said "the event is about promoting the literature of a lifestyle choice that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ." Some of the teachers are now threatening strike action. Aibu to think this story will blow up in the diocese's face?

inews.co.uk/news/catholic-state-school-john-fisher-southwark-diocese-governors-cancel-visit-gay-author-simon-james-green-1505735

@bellac

I don’t agree with live in a secular country. We have bishops in the House of Lords. We have parish schools, Cathedrals all over the country. We have active parishes and representatives across the board involved in Parliamentary groups. We have a Queen who is Head of CofE. We also have other faiths and their representatives and communities throughout the U.K.. I think religious belief and practice is embedded into our infrastructure to such an extent we no longer recognise much of its origins.

@Bellalastrasse

I agree *@Comtesse*

But do people really believe this is about the well being of Catholic children?

Let’s not forget why the schools came about in the U.K. in the first place, eh?

In 70s London the only multicultural schools were Catholic - teachers and staff. That’s been nicely ignored, hasn t it?

I went to a multi cultural school in the 70s in London, it wasnt catholic

Sadly this doesn’t surprise me at a Catholic school. I’m sure that the one my sons went to would have been the same.

@Randonbasic

Seriously Random - Catholicism is just NT. Just Jesus. There’s a whole schism about this.

Bellalastrasse

Firstly I was re-quoting a PP.

Secondly, I am a Christian but that doesn’t mean I can’t see the massive hypocrisy in so many people and organisations that say they are religious.

Thirdly, The Catholic Church has an horrendous history in terms of covering up abuse.

Fourthly, I work in a therapeutic field so do plenty to help victims of abuse which is why I feel so strongly about what the Catholic Church has done (in many countries).

We have openly gay teacher at our Catholic School.. and divorced ones .. and single parents .. and step families .. we have young people who are gay, or who have gay parents .. and young people come from all kinds of backgrounds.

You get religious zealots in any religion, and then you get the real people who are living in the real world. Pope Francis (and theology) tells us that the most important thing we need to do is to spread love, even if that means going against the teachings of your religion.

This is what the chap at this school should be asking himself - “am I spreading God’s love” if not, he’s in the wrong job.

I used to teach in a Catholic school. I'm a practising Anglican but not Catholic and honestly I was quite shocked about how strict they are about observing doctrine. The Chair of Governors was a very strict nun. I wouldn't teach in another one if that experience was typical and wouldn't send non-Catholic DC to one. I work in a C of E school and the approach to religion is much more relaxed.

Abuse in the Catholic Church was horrific, as was abuse in children's homes , residental homes, reform schools, hospitals, Anglican clergy, The BBC .. you name the institution and it happened. It’s unfair to tar all Catholics with that brush - I’ve known some amazing clergy (still do)

Would you really want people to feel intimidated in public because of that? Seriously?

Would I want people to feel that they can't call my foster son vile homophobic slurs in public? Out loud? Abso-fucking-lutely.

[quote Bellalastrasse]@bellac

I don’t agree with live in a secular country. We have bishops in the House of Lords. We have parish schools, Cathedrals all over the country. We have active parishes and representatives across the board involved in Parliamentary groups. We have a Queen who is Head of CofE. We also have other faiths and their representatives and communities throughout the U.K.. I think religious belief and practice is embedded into our infrastructure to such an extent we no longer recognise much of its origins.[/quote]
Was that reply meant for me?

[quote Bellalastrasse]@Randonbasic

Seriously Random - Catholicism is just NT. Just Jesus. There’s a whole schism about this.[/quote]
So the Psalms aren't in the Catholic Bible? Genesis isn't in Catholic theology? Ruth, Esther not Catholic? The book of Job, Proverbs, not Catholic?

Or you're saying that they pick and choose which parts are 'true'?

@Annoyedtoomuch

Perhaps I have read it wrong, in which case I apologise.

If you work in this field and know the history of institutional belief across faiths and state bodies, then you know it is not unique to Catholicism. You also would know that the Catholic Church was advised to follow therapeutic treatment from clinical research that advocated for the approach they took.

Nothing wrong with that law, in that setting

What is it about "that setting" (Florida?) that makes it being illegal for children to hear about same-sex relationships okay?

I find this a really alarming statement. Religious belief is often entwined with some peoples whole identities. People have always been persecuted for it. It is difficult when you come from older, religious countries to separate the parts out. Would you really want people to feel intimidated in public because of that? Seriously?

Yes. People shouldn't be comfortable making openly racist or homophobic statements in public.

@RandomBasic

Not literally, no. It’s metaphorical. The NT stuff is the only focus. Catholics are meant to consider the stuff like Psalms through a NT lens - with a focus on Jesus’ teachings. Kinda of look at what they thought and how they were wrong and Jesus came and showed the right way.

@voldr

So religious practice = homophobia and racism to you?

[quote Bellalastrasse]I think this is just as bad

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teacher-investigated-wearing-inappropriate-figure-26412837.amp[/quote]
And has absolutely fuck all to do with a Catholic school discriminating against a gay author.

[quote Bellalastrasse]@voldr

So religious practice = homophobia and racism to you?[/quote]
That is not remotely what I said. The poster you responded to said that homophobia should carry the same stigma as racist beliefs and I agree.

@pointythinve
Have just seen your latest post. I would, too but the point I made was that your link between someone calling yr relative a homophobic term and religion (in this case Catholicism).

That’s bigotry. Home of the kind of behaviour you profess to abhor.

@georama - that post is in response to the the image of the man dressed as harlequin at a library reading. I think they do relate. They are about inappropriate costumes around minors and no, I was not in anyway linking that to the original topic.

@voldr. I questioned the original poster because she made a link not between homophobia and racism but linked them both to religion. It was the assumption in her post that the homophobic incident with her relative was related to the topic.

[quote Bellalastrasse]@georama - that post is in response to the the image of the man dressed as harlequin at a library reading. I think they do relate. They are about inappropriate costumes around minors and no, I was not in anyway linking that to the original topic.

@voldr. I questioned the original poster because she made a link not between homophobia and racism but linked them both to religion. It was the assumption in her post that the homophobic incident with her relative was related to the topic.[/quote]
I read that as you being deliberately obtuse in order to claim that people were trying to be bigoted about religion

The first poster was the foster carer who said quite rightly that people should be ashamed to have those views (homophobic) in public.

[quote Bellalastrasse]@RandomBasic

Not literally, no. It’s metaphorical. The NT stuff is the only focus. Catholics are meant to consider the stuff like Psalms through a NT lens - with a focus on Jesus’ teachings. Kinda of look at what they thought and how they were wrong and Jesus came and showed the right way.[/quote]
That was exactly my point. It's a pick and choose smorgasbord.
"The Lord is my Shepherd"
Yes, that's nice, lets read that one out. Flip over a few pages - "dash the babies of your enemies against the rocks". Oh, that's not very nice, let's find another nice bit. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Leviticus Chapter 20 verse 13.

Oh, let's flip over to the nice, new testament bit. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." Awww , hang on, I thought new testament was nice, what's this -Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." New Testament. No, flip back to the nice bit.

'He who is without sin, cast the first stone,' awww.

It's a mishmash.

You can either twist into a pretzel trying to explain, or you can acknowledge that it was bronze age people trying to understand the universe, doing their best but ultimately coming up with a contradictory tangle.

There is a massive problem on this forum that posts dont even have numbers, its impossible to follow conversations at times.

[quote gymgymgo]The Archdiocese of Southwark over-ruled one of its own headteachers and is sacking some governors because they approved the visit of a children's author who writes books about fictional gay characters. They've said the visit is "outside the scope of what is permissible in a Catholic school". The school's chaplain has said "the event is about promoting the literature of a lifestyle choice that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ." Some of the teachers are now threatening strike action. Aibu to think this story will blow up in the diocese's face?

inews.co.uk/news/catholic-state-school-john-fisher-southwark-diocese-governors-cancel-visit-gay-author-simon-james-green-1505735[/quote]
Then I think the chaplain needs to read his bible. Jesus never said anything against homosexuality. St Paul may have done but he doesn't carry as much clout as Jesus.

The age of the children.

That's the setting I meant