Diocese banning visit from gay author and sacking governors that approved it

[gymgymgo]

The Archdiocese of Southwark over-ruled one of its own headteachers and is sacking some governors because they approved the visit of a children's author who writes books about fictional gay characters. They've said the visit is "outside the scope of what is permissible in a Catholic school". The school's chaplain has said "the event is about promoting the literature of a lifestyle choice that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ." Some of the teachers are now threatening strike action. Aibu to think this story will blow up in the diocese's face?

inews.co.uk/news/catholic-state-school-john-fisher-southwark-diocese-governors-cancel-visit-gay-author-simon-james-green-1505735

As a side issue, Simon James Green's books are awesome. They're funny, brilliant, and promote the healthiest sweetest relationships I think I've seen in any recent YA literature. They're gay, obviously, but they're genuine and much, much more positive than most of the other books children read.

He's great. He must be booked up at this time of year, so I'd guess the school were lucky to get him in the first place and probably booked him at least six months ago.

BUY HIS BOOKS. If you've got teenagers they'll enjoy them- whatever their sexuality or gender. They're like a modern (cough. Better) Adrian Mole.

@mummykel16 you do realise that it's just section 28 under a new name. Do you honestly believe that children should not be taught that some people are gay, that they or their classmates shouldn't be able to talk about their same sex parents?

I questioned the original poster because she made a link not between homophobia and racism but linked them both to religion. It was the assumption in her post that the homophobic incident with her relative was related to the topic.

Given that this thread is about the homophobia of a religious school, I don't think linking them is too far fetched.

@purpledagger

I know the chaplain. He is very conservative.

What's all that nonsense he's talking about standing up against tyranny? Exactly what tyranny does he think happens as a result of a gay author being invited to the school?

@OpheliaThrupps

It's their religion. Homosexuality is a sin.

Child abuse is also a sin but the Catholic Church don't seem to fussed about that one.

@Annoyedtoomuch

The ‘it’s their religion’ argument doesn’t wash. If the bible were being used to the letter to guide behaviour all catholic men should have beards. Jesus would be accepting of difference. So should the church. Homophobia is un-Christian, unevolved and outdated.

But their religion isn't just about the Bible, is it? They're not Biblical literalists and never pretended to be.

I’m out, guys. I have read back through the whole thread to see if I could have misconstrued anything but I don’t think I have. It’s descending into confusion and will just end up a pile on for the anti Catholics.

That was exactly my point. It's a pick and choose smorgasbord.
"The Lord is my Shepherd"
Yes, that's nice, lets read that one out. Flip over a few pages - "dash the babies of your enemies against the rocks". Oh, that's not very nice, let's find another nice bit. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Leviticus Chapter 20 verse 13.

Oh, let's flip over to the nice, new testament bit. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." Awww , hang on, I thought new testament was nice, what's this -Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." New Testament. No, flip back to the nice bit.

'He who is without sin, cast the first stone,' awww.

It's a mishmash.

You can either twist into a pretzel trying to explain, or you can acknowledge that it was bronze age people trying to understand the universe, doing their best but ultimately coming up with a contradictory tangle.

I do love this post @RandomBasic

And yes, why not come up with a rational moral philosophy which you yourself can adapt to your own life experience instead of some pick-and-mix from a selection of ancient texts from another age, interpreted by a patriarchal authoritarian institution with an appalling track record tempered by some extraordinary (and highly unconvincing) mental gymnastics?

(And yes Islam is no better.)

Child abuse is also a sin but the Catholic Church don't seem to fussed about that one.

I'm pretty sure that would not invite speakers who write about child abuse in positive light.

@Bellalastrasse

I’m out, guys. I have read back through the whole thread to see if I could have misconstrued anything but I don’t think I have. It’s descending into confusion and will just end up a pile on for the anti Catholics.

More anti- homophobe than anti- Catholic

@Ionlydomassiveones

I’m a Christian and homophobia goes against everything Jesus taught us. So sad that this outrageous discrimination is still happening under the banner of a faith which I see as a faith of love and belonging.

Find one instance where Jesus says anything about homosexuality - you won't!

[quote Bellalastrasse]@pointythinve
Have just seen your latest post. I would, too but the point I made was that your link between someone calling yr relative a homophobic term and religion (in this case Catholicism).

That’s bigotry. Home of the kind of behaviour you profess to abhor.[/quote]
Many world religions teach that homosexuality is sinful. They then allow and in many cases encourage people to behave accordingly. They must therefore accept a share of the responsibility for the suffering inflicted on the LGBT community - they are providing the excuse and they are not condemning the behaviour in many cases.

Of course there are many people of faith who stand up for the rights of LGBT people (and for the rights of women, atheists and others not of the faith). But that is despite the guidance they are getting from their religious leadership, not because of it.

Being opposed to people who indulge in hatred and spread it is not bigoted. If I were to say all members of [fill in faith here] are like that, I would be bigoted. But I am explicitly not saying that.

When the leadership of certain faith communities around the world stop preaching the words that inflame hate in their followers, I'll change my views. But I won't be holding my breath. The same applies to anyone who preaches hate of any kind - the xenophobes of this world, the Thierry Baudets of this world with their subtle misogyny dressed up as 'the natural order of things'. It isn't just faiths who are guilty of this, it's other movements too.

State schools shouldn’t be run by religious zealots

[quote Hoardasurass]@mummykel16 you do realise that it's just section 28 under a new name. Do you honestly believe that children should not be taught that some people are gay, that they or their classmates shouldn't be able to talk about their same sex parents?[/quote]
Children can and do talk about all sorts of things and that's to be expected, sex education is not something I personally feel should be taught to that age group, the rest they will see in the natural course of life

@OpheliaThrupps

Child abuse is also a sin but the Catholic Church don't seem to fussed about that one.

I'm pretty sure that would not invite speakers who write about child abuse in positive light.

No that's left to schools and universities

sex education is not something I personally feel should be taught to that age group

Secondary school children?? Why?

sex education is not something I personally feel should be taught to that age group

Do you think 'Sex education' means teaching positions and fun ways of how to actually do it?

It is teaching where babies come from and how to prevent it as well as how to prevent disease. Why should this not be taught?

Oh dear, I absolute apologies @OpheliaThrupps. I saw your first comment and went straight for the jugular. I'M sorry.

Your comment is quite nonchalant and does seem to excuse religion for thinking that homosexuality is a sin though. It is not ok to think like this. It is not ok to think that homosexuality is a sin, it is not ok to think that women are less equal than men, and it is not ok to even think that slavery is an option. If religion perpetuates any hatred towards a fellow human, it is not fit for purpose. We also don't need to respect what that religion says.

I'm happy for anyone to follow any religion they want, but when it involves oppressing people, I'm going to be vocal.

The Pope recently said not to condemn gay kids, what message is this sending to gay kids in the school?

Is the Catholic Church here, not up to date with the message the literal Pope of the Catholic Church sent out in January?

Or is it just good old fashioned homophobia? People seem so attached to this and have no issue in bastardising the Bible to justify their bigotry.

@mummykel16 If letting children know that gay people exist is sex education, surely you’re also against children knowing about straight people as that would also be sex education. So I take it you want marriage for example to never be mentioned by schools, reproduction not to be mentioned, periods to never be mentioned.

It's a Catholic school?? Why are you surprised?