Diocese banning visit from gay author and sacking governors that approved it

[gymgymgo]

The Archdiocese of Southwark over-ruled one of its own headteachers and is sacking some governors because they approved the visit of a children's author who writes books about fictional gay characters. They've said the visit is "outside the scope of what is permissible in a Catholic school". The school's chaplain has said "the event is about promoting the literature of a lifestyle choice that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ." Some of the teachers are now threatening strike action. Aibu to think this story will blow up in the diocese's face?

inews.co.uk/news/catholic-state-school-john-fisher-southwark-diocese-governors-cancel-visit-gay-author-simon-james-green-1505735

The bible contains descriptions of things like rape, murder slavery, genocide, human sacrifice. A bit worse than mentioning a blow job.

Although I suppose worse is subjective.

You quoted an article from the Christian Institute. If they're not homophobic I don't know what is.

I don't agree.

With which part?

With your comparison to biblical passages being worse

Appalling. Also, Jesus never said anything about the gays. Paul did, but he was a dick

Fair enough. Personally I think mass killing in the name of God is worse than teenagers thinking about sex but horses for courses.

The church doesn't seem to be basing its proposed ban on just one passage in one book by this author, but on the general premise that they perceive his books promote homosexuality. If the school doesn't want children to read that version of the Lord's Prayer, they don't have to have that book on site. But it would be naive to think that 12-14 year olds aren't composing even more scatological versions of bible passages.

I was doing GCSEs at age 14, and started A level studies whilst still the same age. 14 year olds are mature enough to make their own judgments on what they read.

You know everything Jesus said?

Like everyone else, I go by what was written down.

If the reported content of the book is true then it is entirely unsuprising the Catholic church would not want the author invited to promote the book in school.

Would there be any open outrage if Islamic schools banned books in thier own schools which degrade thier religion or which explicitly promote a life style outside thier doctrine?

No. Everyone bends over backwards to be 'tolerant' of religion then, or at least keep quiet out of fear.

This school has only disinvited the author.

They haven't suggested he should be killed, and I presume he isn't now in hiding?

Catholic doctrine is not based only what Jesus said but on centuries of traditions of interpretations of this.
It is not a literal bible religion.

If you prefer a literal interpretaion of the Bible there are other christian churches you'd be better suited to.

If you have no interest in Christian teaching or the Bible at all, you can choose that.

No-one is actively discrminated against because of Catholic doctrine, as following it is entirely optional.

Any Catholic who acted in hatred towards a gay person in words or actions would be going against Catholic doctrine.

An organisation choosing not to invite someone as their views go against the belief of that organistion is not discrimination or hatred.

I really think there would be a huge benefit in people finding
out exactly what Catholicism is about rather than what they read online usually by biased sources.

I agree @BeatricePortinari well said.

it’s is probably the most lenient and least snooty religion yet it is being judged by stuff taken out of context from hundreds of years ago whilst other faiths subjugate and abuse their own followers.

I never thought I would defend the RC Church but in the light of the nonsense written about it and believed by some, I find the hypocrisy stunning.

Would there be any open outrage if Islamic schools banned books in thier own schools which degrade thier religion or which explicitly promote a life style outside thier doctrine?

If an Islamic school banned an author for featuring gay characters in their books then yes that would be just as bad.

And being gay is not a lifestyle.

And I doubt Catholicism is the most lenient religion at least when it comes to homosexuality.

@codeVeronica

which faiths? RC is accepting of gay people. The marriage issue is because in RC marriage is for children, so man and woman. Not against marriage in other institutions or registry offices.

or do you have evidence where RC has said it is against same sex couples marrying in other institutions?

We live in a secular country

No we do not. We live in a country with an established church, the Church of England. The Head of State is also head of the established church.

Because we fund C of E schools we also fund other faith schools - RC, Moslem Jewish etc. Those schools have to teach the national curriculum, British values etc so they cannot promote views which are openly homophobic. They can however teach children that certain behaviours are not in keeping with their religious views, they can promote behaviours they believe are in keeping with their religious views eg wearing a hijab and they can chose not to invite a particular writer to their schools.

I don't imagine for a moment there is a single Islamic school with books containing homosexuality.

The outrage of the Muslim community in Birmingham to homosexuality being taught in secular schools was extensive.

The Catholic church here has merely decided not to invite an author. The Islamic response to their religion being debased in their view, in a school, as has been done here, is to issue fatwahs.

Spot the difference?

Anyone can just choose to ignore and not be involved with the Catholics, and their views will then have no influence on your life or choices.

You can write books insulting Catholics. You can read books about how Jesus was just a big fat gay con artist if you want.

But you just have to accept some Catholic people somewhere may have a view on how you live your life which you disagree with or don't like.

They're not obliged to buy your books or invite you to their institution. You are not obliged to pay any attention to their views.

That's the deal in a liberal democracy.

Nope. Most Catholics, in the UK at least do not support the official teachings of the church around issues of homosexuality.

Nevertheless the RC Church does not allow same-sex marriage where other faiths do. And they clearly were against it in other institutions since they campaigned against it legally. My understanding is that gay men are not supposed to be ordained although not quite sure how that works.

You seem a bit obsessed about what Islamic schools might hypothetically do, given that this is about a Catholic school.

I'm not obsessed I'm making examples to illustrate what is acceptable for a religious organisation and what is not.

You may not like the Catholic doctrine on homosexuality but it is allowable within our law.

@LimpBiskit many Catholic parents probably disagree with or disregard Catholic doctrine in a number of ways but it remains the teaching of the church nonetheless, and the leadership will therefore uphold it.

@codeVeronica

There is a huge territory of nuance that is missing from your understanding of RC.

It really isn’t the way you think it is. Being gay is a state of being in oneself, like being tall or short. There is nothing a person can do about it which the Church has always acknowledged. It’s not something to be changed.

there are other Christian faiths that take a different view - conversion, etc. That’s a whole different ball game imv - they are not really Christian if they don’t except people the way they are in my opinion.

In the RC church, marriage has a particular purpose - a unit for the family. Biologically, same sex can’t reproduce therefore, marriage is redundant in RC.

Of course, there is adoption, etc nowadays so no one (except for some hardliners who are holding on to the doctrine as they believe it and not the faith - they are two distinct things) would see that unit as anything other than a family unit.

For the record, if a person went to the priest and said they felt same sex marriage was wrong, the advice would be focused on

• their sphere - why does it concern them?
• is love there? Isn’t that the important thing?
• God has the answers - chill. It’ll all make sense in the end.

We keep it simple.

Agreed but my comment was in relation to a previous comment about parents expectations, not church hierarchy responses.

Surely parents should expect the church hierarchy to implement the teaching of the church?

What else do they expect when they choose a Catholic school?