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Surely they can’t expect us to pay 240 per month for power!

999 replies

Ellie198712 · 08/03/2022 18:33

Just read Martin Lewis’s latest email and it’s predicting average bills of £2900 per year!! Surely the government will need to step in and subsidise this cost. Our current bill is about 100 per month, and this just seems untenable for the vast majority

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:30

@Kennykenkencat

Average wage in the '70s was £14k Grin

It was £1200 per year not £1200 per month

Dh in about 1982, a few years after qualifying in a profession was asked at an interview “What makes you think you are worth a 5

But to compare you need to strip out inflation. It's not meaningful to compare the actual salary on a wage slip.
ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:32

In 1980 £10,000 (5 figure salary) was the equivalent of £45,000 today. So it was a very fair question!

Blossomtoes · 10/03/2022 09:34

£3k in 1970 is the equivalent of nearly £50k today. So yes you were very well paid

Wrong. £3k in 1975 is the equivalent of around £26k today. Are you just plucking these ridiculous “facts” out of thin air?

www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1975

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:34

@SamphiretheStickerist

That's really not typical.

75% of over 65's own their own home outright.

Only a quarter are still renting (or a few will be paying off their mortgage).

SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 09:34

Who me @Hrpuffnstuff1?

I have lived experience, does that count?

And that is precisely what I was asking our Actual Actuary to come up with. But real ones. Not partial truths and misinformation.

And as I tried to explain in my last post that generation did not become wealthy in its entirety. But looking at its starting point it is hard to see how it could have doneanything other than bettered itself. And again, it wasn't Boomers who began that process. It was t he generation/s before them, who lived as adults through their own depressions and a couple of world wars.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:35

[quote Blossomtoes]£3k in 1970 is the equivalent of nearly £50k today. So yes you were very well paid

Wrong. £3k in 1975 is the equivalent of around £26k today. Are you just plucking these ridiculous “facts” out of thin air?

www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1975[/quote]
No, we're using the same calculator but you put in 1975 not 1970 Grin

SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 09:35

[quote ThinkAboutItTomorrow]@SamphiretheStickerist

That's really not typical.

75% of over 65's own their own home outright.

Only a quarter are still renting (or a few will be paying off their mortgage). [/quote]
"Typical" where I come from!

And you are conflating 'Boomers' at retirement age with them at the age of say 20!

Think it through.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:37

But @Blossomtoes to the point of this thread that's a pretty stark reminder what runaway inflation caused by an oil crisis does to wages.

XingMing · 10/03/2022 09:38

My first job in 1978 paid about £4.5k pa plus London weighting of £500. I felt rich after living on a student grant of £750 pa for three years. Average wages were definitely nowhere near £14k.

My parents' first house, bought in 1959, cost £900 guineas, and they sold it in 1962 for £1500, before buying the next one for a little more in 1962. It went on the market in 1972 for about £8k, but the OPEC crisis in 1973 meant a recession and they eventually sold in 1974 for about £5k.

Property prices have always been more of a roller-coaster than a smooth upward curve.

Kennykenkencat · 10/03/2022 09:40

@SamphiretheStickerist

Baby Boomers scrimped and saved and spent their money on bricks and mortar rather than luxuries. So it's a combo of stable permanent contracts, working hard (to get the decent pensions) and investing in properties that have helped them to comfortable 'elder' lifestyles.

Yep. Because my Boomer parents had a single wage. They lied about mum being pregnant so they could get a mortgage on two wages, even then they were grilled about howling mum would stay working before she became a Little Housewife. She couldn't go on the pill before they married, wasn't welcome back to work after she had me. So dad worked many hours to pay for everything. Was known as the Tuity Fruity man because me and mus sister only saw him on Friday's when he cam hime early from work with sweeties. My sister was often scared of him, thought he was a stranger. And he had a second job over the weekend. My parents tried to be the new upwardly mobile youth the adverts promised so much to.

They bought everything on the never never - as everyone seemed to back then. So we had all mod cons until the shillings ran out and the Rumbelows van came and took something away. Then a couple of months later they would go out and re hire purchase a similar item, that may or may not stay until it was paid off or replaced. That included the house. Dad got a new job and sold the house for almost exactly what he paid for it. So he may as well have rented. He did from then on.

They had no private pensions. they relied upon the state, the promises they were made about hard work and retirement reward. Mum worked for enough years to qualify in her own right - we were latchkey kids from the first day we were both at school.

But remember these are parents of many of us who would not have had the heating on more than minimally (if indeed they had CH in their properties), would not have had baths/showers daily, wouldn't leave lights on all over the house, and for whom the word 'tumble dryer' would have been unknown until well into middle-age. We can learn a lot from them about 'making do' in the context of conserving energy!

Never had CH. Always had one room that was heated, kids given the bedroom above it. Weekly baths, best ones were after dad as it would have been deeper and hotter than one drawn specifically for us. Mum was always the last in. Daily 'cat's lick' (which is fucking disgusting when you think about it). Door closed behind you every time, ights only on if really needed and truned off as you closed the door on leaving a room - on pain of what seemed like death. No tumble dryer. No fridge for a few years - cold shelf in the pantry did for us until about 1970, daily shopping made fridges and freezers unecessary. Twin tub and mangle, all that good fun stuff.

I think I was about 16, 17 years old by the time they had what everyone now thinksis the norm. And still they lived in a council house - until in his 50s Dad bought a small doer upper, which they lived in until circumstances meant they couldn't afford that and DSis took them in.

They are now mid 70s in a rented flat, state pension and no other funding to fall back on.

That is the reality of many Boomers. In fact of all the Boomers I know.

No matter what cobblers is sold to us via various media outlets, 'experts' here, my parents live the lives of many Boomers. Hard working, constantly living on the edge of earnings, more mobile than previous generations but having to be to chase work. They lived as kids and adults through major depressions and brought up Gen X kids to be hard working, self reliant and, often , philanthropic, socially minded adults.

Not quite the same as the balderdash spouted so often across MN!

Fellow baby boomer, I have been told that sort of life style apparently only happened in the 1930s (Remember the tin bath hung by the side of the fireplace except you were lucky, children were the last in and we lived with extended family) Add in immigrant family who wasn’t able to get HP or benefits or even steady jobs and would have the early morning disruption of the door kicked in by the police on a regular basis because if there was a robbery or window broken etc then of course it had to be one of the immigrant families who lived in the area
NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 10/03/2022 09:41

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow I was not being sarcastic and I believe you'd find that not many of the early 'Boomers' would say otherwise about the lives they lived with young families. They may have been able to afford to buy more affordable homes, but they were not well off by 21st Century standards. And credit wasn't really a thing they embraced either! I'm assuming you have not lived the Boomer experience directly?

PickAChew · 10/03/2022 09:44

@poshme

Wow *@BambinaJAS* you do talk rubbish!

No choice but to tumble dry? We are a family of 5. I have used the tumble drier once since October.

I hang clothes outside unless actually raining. Most clothes dry like that.

I have a dehumidifier and it dries clothes incredibly quickly- if I can't hang them outside they go in one room with the dh. Leave them drying for about an hour, then run the it for an hour or two to pull the moisture out of the air. I could run the dehumidifier for 10 hours for the same price as 1 hour tumble drying. It usually only takes 2 hours.

And my kids know that clothes don't all get washed after one wear.

Bully for you. I have an incontinent teen and another who can't keep clothes clean enough to re-wear and, by the time I get it all washed, no it doesn't dry outside for all but a few days out of a few months in summer.
Hrpuffnstuff1 · 10/03/2022 09:46

@Blossomtoes

However, they did benefit from the highest periods of asset and wage growth in history.

Also known as inflation and accompanied by constantly rising prices and interest rates.

Asset Inflation, (Homes), outstripped interest rates. So in the end the artificial break on costs/prices didn't stop the asset inflation. You just paid a little bit more into your future capital piggybank.

Wage growth was a constant post-war reaching peaks of up to 30% in two periods.
Basically, you got more value for money.

Gen x and boomers are both as bad as each other, both are in denial of the benefit they have enjoyed over future generations, they're also the unhealthiest generation. They're in denial about that too.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 09:49

(Remember the tin bath hung by the side of the fireplace except you were lucky, children were the last in and we lived with extended family)

OMG! I had forgotten that. Yep. Grandparents, whom we lived with before parents got on their feet as a married couple, had a tin bath. The water was heated on the range in what would now be the living room and taken into the back kitchen where male adults got the hot clean water, kids got a stand up was next and everyone was shuffled back in front of the grate to get dry whilst adult females sorted themselves out.

We weren't immigrants, but were dock workers, Irish in part. So the door kicking was not a frequent occurence, but it happened to neighbours. Kids used to scuttle over the yard walls and take shelter with our grandparents whilst their dad got a 'grilling'.

I am a very early Gen Xer, DH a very late Boomer. We lived across the divide between domestic manual labour and the new household gadgets. I always find tales of how rich we were to be closely akin to science fiction. Maybe someone my age from a more Southern area has a different experience. I am from Liverpool, DH from the SouthWest Midlands and our younger lives were very similar.

poshme · 10/03/2022 09:52

@pickachew that's why we have a dehumidifier- because hanging outside doesn't always dry washing. But I dried 2 loads outside yesterday. Freezing cold- but windy. So nearly completely dry when i brought it in

And I totally get that issues like incontinence means that tumble driers are needed- I had a stage of washing 4 sets of wet bedding daily so you have my sympathy on that.
But bambina was talking rubbish- including that tumble driers are necessary for everyone with children. I don't agree.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 10/03/2022 09:53

[quote NewModelArmyMayhem18]@ThinkAboutItTomorrow I was not being sarcastic and I believe you'd find that not many of the early 'Boomers' would say otherwise about the lives they lived with young families. They may have been able to afford to buy more affordable homes, but they were not well off by 21st Century standards. And credit wasn't really a thing they embraced either! I'm assuming you have not lived the Boomer experience directly?[/quote]
I'm not saying life was easy. My parents were a bit older than boomers but brought up dirt poor.

Still they (and all siblings - the younger ones are boomers) bought their own homes before they were 30 on wages as a typist and a welder.

They then got to watch the value of those houses skyrocket.

My uncle worked in a fruit & veg warehouse and had 4 kids but still bought a house.

Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly proud and impressed by what my parents built from where they started but I've spent my life arguing with my dad that it's just not the same for people today.

there's no better Tory than a working class lad made good.

Blossomtoes · 10/03/2022 09:55

Gen x and boomers are both as bad as each other, both are in denial of the benefit they have enjoyed over future generations

No denial here. I just object to being constantly slated for something over which I have zero control, ie my date of birth!

they're also the unhealthiest generation. They're in denial about that too

You’d kind of expect that, given that health deteriorates with age. It’s ever been thus.

PickAChew · 10/03/2022 10:04

Older people are less healthy? Who knew?

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 10/03/2022 10:05

@SamphiretheStickerist

Who me *@Hrpuffnstuff1*?

I have lived experience, does that count?

And that is precisely what I was asking our Actual Actuary to come up with. But real ones. Not partial truths and misinformation.

And as I tried to explain in my last post that generation did not become wealthy in its entirety. But looking at its starting point it is hard to see how it could have doneanything other than bettered itself. And again, it wasn't Boomers who began that process. It was t he generation/s before them, who lived as adults through their own depressions and a couple of world wars.

I think the poster you mentioned has been a tad unkind and taken the thread off-topic. I don't agree with the comments on education or intelligence however I do see the points about comparative wealth. I do find educated younger (Gen Y, Z, A), rather textbook university-marketing-hr speak in the way they communicate and behave.

It's all very contained, contrived, and lacking in manners and common sense. The consequences of popularizing critical thinking have made a generation of people attempt to intellectualize human interaction.

SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 10:10

Asset Inflation, (Homes), outstripped interest rates.
So in the end the artificial break on costs/prices didn't stop the asset inflation. You just paid a little bit more into your future capital piggybank.

And is still happening. We also lived through a couple of housing crashes. I know there must be another one looming but it won't be the Great Reset everyone seems to think it will be. Lived experience tells me it will be fucking horrendous for everyone, home owners or not.

Wage growth was a constant post-war reaching peaks of up to 30% in two periods.
Basically, you got more value for money.

Yeah! That's what is supposed to happen in a consumerist society. Latter generations are by far the highest consumers of 'stuff' - and who has been develping designing and paying for all of that? It didn't arrive from the heavens. Initially it was dreamed up by, worked on, financed by the very people you decry. Carried on today by the kids of already wealthy parents, Gates, Musk, etc . They developed the common place, every day gadgets that are now so cheap everyone has them and updates them continually. Unless you are a Boomer, GenXer. We tend to keep ours until they don't work any more.

Gen x and boomers are both as bad as each other, both are in denial of the benefit they have enjoyed over future generations, they're also the unhealthiest generation. They're in denial about that too.

Yep! Because the world has moved on since WWII. We have had an industrial revolution, have had a digital revolution. Today's generations have more leisure time and opportunities than ever before. There has also been a great change in mindset - from work to live to live to work. So where I work full time, look forward to weekends, a week's holiday and Christmas, save whatever I can for my retirement. Younger generations live for now, start work later on average, work fewer hours on average and spend more time in leisure pursuits. And have mandatory work pensions etc.

As for health, Who knows?. Gadget thumb, vaping, lack of exercise, general malaise and mental health issues, social media anxiety. All new diseases that could be far wore than being a fat smoker. Time will tell

Anyway, this is off-topic.

No. This IS THE TOPIC. The stupidity of deciding to react to various global catastrophes by falling back on hackneyed hatreds IS THE FUCKING POINT!

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 10/03/2022 10:12

@Blossomtoes

Gen x and boomers are both as bad as each other, both are in denial of the benefit they have enjoyed over future generations

No denial here. I just object to being constantly slated for something over which I have zero control, ie my date of birth!

they're also the unhealthiest generation. They're in denial about that too

You’d kind of expect that, given that health deteriorates with age. It’s ever been thus.

You're just proving my point. A lifetime of smoking, drinking, and overeating, with a lack of personal mobility, has left the current generation with an endemic public health problem. These are the people who were walloped by covid. Deniability doesn't absolve culpability not abdicate personal responsibility.
SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 10:17

@Hrpuffnstuff1 OK, fair enough.

But I can't stereotype the later Gens any more than I would my own. I have a 'classic' Gen Jones SIL. The 'stuff' she can want and need is gobsmacking. But that is her upbringing, older parents who were better off by the time she was born.

What is being compained about, being weaponised, is the passing of time and growth of a civilisation. Those societal changes that every generation defines and works towards.

Pointless but a neat distraction from the realities of life.

And on a thread where those of us who lived through the 70s have a wealth of experience that we would like to pas own to help we get things like "I don't want my kids to live in the 1970s" and are thus ignored.

Well great! But this current situation will not pass quickly. It makes more sense to stop whinging about shit that cannot be changed and to start working together, exchanging ideas, to make life a little easier for everyone.

Did I mention the stereotype of Gen Xers incldues being socially minded, philanthropic on a daily basis? Grin

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 10/03/2022 10:18

@SamphiretheStickerist

*Asset Inflation, (Homes), outstripped interest rates. So in the end the artificial break on costs/prices didn't stop the asset inflation. You just paid a little bit more into your future capital piggybank.*

And is still happening. We also lived through a couple of housing crashes. I know there must be another one looming but it won't be the Great Reset everyone seems to think it will be. Lived experience tells me it will be fucking horrendous for everyone, home owners or not.

Wage growth was a constant post-war reaching peaks of up to 30% in two periods.
Basically, you got more value for money.

Yeah! That's what is supposed to happen in a consumerist society. Latter generations are by far the highest consumers of 'stuff' - and who has been develping designing and paying for all of that? It didn't arrive from the heavens. Initially it was dreamed up by, worked on, financed by the very people you decry. Carried on today by the kids of already wealthy parents, Gates, Musk, etc . They developed the common place, every day gadgets that are now so cheap everyone has them and updates them continually. Unless you are a Boomer, GenXer. We tend to keep ours until they don't work any more.

Gen x and boomers are both as bad as each other, both are in denial of the benefit they have enjoyed over future generations, they're also the unhealthiest generation. They're in denial about that too.

Yep! Because the world has moved on since WWII. We have had an industrial revolution, have had a digital revolution. Today's generations have more leisure time and opportunities than ever before. There has also been a great change in mindset - from work to live to live to work. So where I work full time, look forward to weekends, a week's holiday and Christmas, save whatever I can for my retirement. Younger generations live for now, start work later on average, work fewer hours on average and spend more time in leisure pursuits. And have mandatory work pensions etc.

As for health, Who knows?. Gadget thumb, vaping, lack of exercise, general malaise and mental health issues, social media anxiety. All new diseases that could be far wore than being a fat smoker. Time will tell

Anyway, this is off-topic.

No. This IS THE TOPIC. The stupidity of deciding to react to various global catastrophes by falling back on hackneyed hatreds IS THE FUCKING POINT!

It's not a hackneyed hatred, these topics are discussed and then used to form public policy by governments or organizations, charities, etc.

It's only online where people get their hair off.Grin

SamphiretheStickerist · 10/03/2022 10:19

Yet here we are, on MN, repeating the crap that forms opinions that get taken out into real life to help form policy in governments and organisations.

Or do you think all MNers are home making mums or bots?

Blossomtoes · 10/03/2022 10:21

You're just proving my point

I don’t know how you work that one out but I’m not.

A lifetime of smoking, drinking, and overeating, with a lack of personal mobility, has left the current generation with an endemic public health problem

You’re thinking about boomers’ parents’ generation. It’s young people these days who won’t walk anywhere and spend their entire life sitting down attached to screens.

These are the people who were walloped by covid

Because it was a virus that disproportionately affected the very old, again the generation before boomers. The vast majority of covid deaths were in the over 85 age group.

Deniability doesn't absolve culpability not abdicate personal responsibility

Word salad. I need plain English, please.