I don't think all men 18-60 should be forced to fight and not allowed to leave Ukraine. It should be the choice of individual men and women.

[Jjjayfee]

I just saw a young father in tears as he said goodbye to his wife and baby. He is not allowed to leave Ukraine, but has to stay and fight. I think it should be a choice of individual men and women.

Conscription is not unusual in war

Ukrainians are very traditional people. It’s is a largely patriarchal society. Lots of women are staying behind to fight and keep vital infrastructure going. I think they are immensely brave.

I don't think they are 'forced' to fight though.
Expected to. But not forced. Not from what I've seen anyway. Dunno if it's different depending on where they are specifically.

It’s worth remembering that it was only 80 years ago that we conscripted men into the army and we would do it again if need be. It’s the realities of war.

I’m not sure what else the country can do other than expect their people to stay and fight?

It would happen here too if we went to war.

The same thing would undoubtedly happen here if we were invaded. Would you not want the country to be defended against an invasion? The numbers of regular and reserve forces would be nowhere near enough to do the job.

@ConsuelaHammock

They don't expect 'people'. Only males are required to stay and fight.

At risk of stating the blatantly obvious, they are at war. Of course they need people to stay behind and fight.

YANBU, but that’s war.

It would be the same here if the tables were turned.

@Clarabe1

It’s worth remembering that it was only 80 years ago that we conscripted men into the army and we would do it again if need be. It’s the realities of war.

And sent small children alone to live with strangers.

If it happened here would it not be fairer if men and women had to stay behind then?

If it did happen here, I'd bet that both men and women would be called up in some shape or form.

I think a lot of the women fleeing are those with children, many other women seem to be staying back to fight or contribute in some way as well.

The Ukrainian army in peacetime has a significant proportion of women soldiers. More than in the Uk.

So maybe it’s not our place to tell the Ukrainians how to defend their own county.

From the videos I've seen young women without children are staying to fight.

Of course it's frightening and horrible, and I'm sure they'd all prefer to be spending the evening posting on Mumsnet but they are trying to defend their country against an enemy that is behaving in a completely inhumane manner.

if someone doesn't want to fight, they can probably cook food for the army or drive an ambulance etc. But in the awful circumstances in Ukraine, people who can help need to stay to help. It is really those who can't help who are fleeing - mothers with young children, elderly & disabled people. I think many women without children are also staying to help the war effort.

@Jjjayfee

If it happened here would it not be fairer if men and women had to stay behind then?

Is your objection because it’s sexist?

Men are physically stronger, fact. They are generally better equipped to carry heavy arms. Many women choose to fight too.

Soldiers use the rape of women as a weapon of war and there are already reports of Russian soldiers raping women in Ukraine.

Civilian men, and the men and women in the armed forces, are required to defend the country. Many other women are choosing to join them despite the risks.

Most men would want to see women, particularly those caring for young children, moved to a place of safety. Are you suggesting they should send their children alone and all fight alongside the men?

Will you be offering to adopt the resulting orphans and raise them, if so? Or do you think perhaps it’s best their mothers do leave with them?

@LibrariesGiveUsPower
Plus, I can't speak for the Ukraine but at least here the majority of caring responsibilities are with women. Children and the elderly.

[quote karcar]@LibrariesGiveUsPower
Plus, I can't speak for the Ukraine but at least here the majority of caring responsibilities are with women. Children and the elderly. [/quote]
Quite

Well they’ve been invaded OP - that’s not really fair either is it?! - but given it’s happened it’s reasonable to expect citizens to fight to save their country. I doubt many are being literally forced to, many will want to.

A lot of women are choosing to stay and fight, but mothers with kids wouldn’t be expected to because no one would want the kids to lose both parents. Other than that women are physically less strong so they aren’t usually used as frontline troops, plus it’s less damaging to a country’s future to loose a significant number of young men than young women because they have to carry the next generation. These are all reasons why women don’t usually fight in the same numbers.

If it makes you feel it’s any fairer the UN would say that women generally get really fucked over by war, as they are more vulnerable to the social breakdown that comes with and after it.

I think it's possible to want to stay and fight and also cry on leaving family members. If I was in a position to do so, I'd stay and fight or contribute in some way, even get the children to help if at all possible like some are doing.