To think that capitalism is a load of old shite?

[malificent7]

Most of us are not in the top 1% . We work for those that are and work damn hard. In turn we spend most of our lives slaving away to line the pockets of fat cats.
Yes, the money we earn can buy us a better standard of living in some ways but in the past a lot of my money has gone on shit i don't really need in order to make myself feel better as advertising told me it would make me more beautiful, successful, glamorous or a better mum.
Also, it is run on fossil fuels which cause so much pollution, war etc.
And the modern workplace is mental...so stressful,competitive and target driven, so focussed on producing more shite for us to consume causing anxiety, depression, heart disease and repetitive strain injury. Even the " caring" professions are about making a profit nowadays. An increasing reliance on AI has added to our workload rather than giving us more leisure.
I'm not saying communism is the answer but capitalism is shite. Just having a rant really as feeling very trapoed by it all.

Perhaps you’ve missed some of the media talk demonstrating conclusively that doing better than your parents has not been happening for some time?

So true!

Society and the economy doesn't need dozens more billionaires for a strong economy, we need millions more people being able to afford to live!

Absolutely!

@echobelly

My parents both left school pre 16, very much working class roots. THEY would both say "we worked hard" BUT my mum (who is a bit more on the ball and aware of circumstances economy etc) would ALSO say "and we were VERY lucky with when we were born and the state of the economy when we left school and we're buying our first house etc" - born mid 1940's

Literally left school one day, did no prep, had no cv's or any of that and walked into decent full time jobs straight away!

And since then have been fortunate as well as hard working in terms of jobs, post compulsory education, housing, pension...

@Exdonkeylover if only it were that simple. Many of us have few options available to us for getting essential goods especially if disabled.

Wintersonata communism HASN'T been properly enacted anywhere - that was my point did you misunderstand?

@Tealightsandd thank you very much

But what is necessary is everybody (including those too ill or disabled or old to work) have enough to live on - for essentials. Plus at least some treats (because life needs respite from the grind and health is holistic - mental health is as important as physical).

Agree

I think capitalism is not only driving climate change, it's fundamentally incapable of solving it. I think we are going to be forced into a change at some point.

Agree with this too.

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife

Thank you

I have a lot of time on my hands and too many thoughts! Plus I'm procrastinating a lot at the moment!

they refuse to look but then somehow find a way to imply that you’re the one that’s lazy.

Unfortunately way too often this is true of the majority of the electorate on a number of issues - but then the political parties REALLY need to get on board with most peoples short attention span these days!

The tax credits thing is particularly appalling. Using public funds to subsidise private companies while pretending you are looking after the poorest sections of society. Just goes to show that it’s not the tories that are the real problem, it’s the whole system.

I don't completely agree with you there, imo (and many others) labour was basically infiltrated by tories in disguise at this point who recognised that the electorate was starting to turn against the Tory party - for a much smaller scale of the major problems we're seeing now - deception, corruption and cronyism!

Way back in 1997 I was recently married to a man who "didn't do politics" (anyone old enough to remember that? Link below) despite the fact he was in the bloody army! I was kind of...educating him on basics and he knew my main opinions and was quite puzzled - especially given his popularity at the time - as to why I was for the 1st time in my adult life NOT going to be voting labour.

I'm simple terms I said to now exh that I didn't trust Blair, didn't believe him to be a socialist at heart and wouldn't serve the best interests of the ordinary people of the country - which imo is what labour traditionally and is SUPPOSED to stand for! I feel much the same about keir starmer except I feel he is less competent and less confident in his abilities than Blair.

But quite honestly ANY reasonably competent leader would be better than sodding Johnson!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ame0j8jbMY4

In terms of this debate though, uk leadership sadly has little effect. We are at the sharp end of whatever USA, china and Russia do. Whether we like it or not they are the dominating powers. We don't have the power on a world scale that we THINK we have (or some brits anyway)

I'm afraid I agree with those theorists that think USA and Russia will tear each other apart economically, environmentally and politically...and then china will swoop in and profit from whatever is left over!

This has been the prediction in some quarters since the early 20th century and I see no reason to think this won't be the case - which is bloody terrifying!

These theorists, some think that the USA will split roughly along north/south lines possibly also east/west.

That Russia will disintegrate more along the lines of its constituent republics - which we are already seeing happening really. The federation will implode.

China needs to watch out for the inefficiency and precariousness of its current banking system which is too finely balanced on just a few major banks and additionally the discontent of the populace with basic state functions being inefficient.

Ultimately though, we are all connected.

One goes it'll be a domino fall!

Possibly/probably a period of outright anarchy before rebuilding based on an as yet unthought of model.

All theoretical of course. But from when I started reading into this kind of thing (about 3 years before the collapse of the Berlin Wall was when I first became interested) and I mentioned the theories I'd been reading about to my mum that the Berlin Wall would likely be down in the next 5 years and that would lead to the collapse of the USSR - she was very sceptical having lived through it going up!

I have seen a number of the changes predicted by some come to fruition.

It's interesting but also very frightening!

[quote Landedonfeet]**@NukesOfHazard

If your husband messing up results in 2000 losing heir jobs

Then that company is appallingly regulated and appalling processes in place.[/quote]
Well said. @NukesOfHazard, what a delusional thing to say.

@InsanityRocks

A wealth tax would be good, a focus on community from school age learning about and respecting the earth, mindfulness, teaching children how to cook and teaching them we are all better if we look after one another. It's possible to do, there are places in the world that are doing some of these things but the top 1% don't want us to turn away from consumerism and become a global village because they won't be the top 1% anymore. So they will seek to divide and conquer which continues to prove to be a very effective strategy

Totally agree!

At some point capitalism will eat itself.

Unfortunately we'd likely never see communism proper on a large scale because humans are by nature greedy - for power more than wealth though the two mostly go hand in hand

Graphista since human nature is unlikely to change then there’s not much point promoting communism as an ideal.

Presumably communes were started with the same ideals - has there ever been a long lasting commune where all the inhabitants are happy?

Capitalism does work for most people in the U.K. though, considering what the average person takes out compared with what they put in.

Most tax payers don’t contribute enough in tax to cover their own costs. I think only the top 30% of tax payers do this. Most are being carried by other people’s contributions.

This is not to say that most of the population have everything they want, or even everything they need.

But it is worth looking up what is spent on each person’s behalf - medical care, education, security, maintainance of public utilities - and considering how we would pay it under another system.

@Flyonawalk

Capitalism does work for most people in the U.K. though, considering what the average person takes out compared with what they put in.

Most tax payers don’t contribute enough in tax to cover their own costs. I think only the top 30% of tax payers do this. Most are being carried by other people’s contributions.

This is not to say that most of the population have everything they want, or even everything they need.

But it is worth looking up what is spent on each person’s behalf - medical care, education, security, maintainance of public utilities - and considering how we would pay it under another system.

I’d be interested to know where you found that information and what is your measure of “what you put in”.

For example, there are plenty of (mainly women) who are contributing in the form of unpaid care which enables others (usually men) go to work. How do you measure that?

@KevinTurvysGravy

At some point capitalism will eat itself.

Is that you Jeremy Corbyn?

With globalisation, manufacturing occuring hidden or far away in conditions average UK people wouldn't tolerate, international businesses operating online not subject to taxation on their profits, I think we see capitalism in a pickle.

@InsanityRocks

A wealth tax would be good, a focus on community from school age learning about and respecting the earth, mindfulness, teaching children how to cook and teaching them we are all better if we look after one another. It's possible to do, there are places in the world that are doing some of these things but the top 1% don't want us to turn away from consumerism and become a global village because they won't be the top 1% anymore. So they will seek to divide and conquer which continues to prove to be a very effective strategy

The wealthy are already taxed..

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife

I see a few people here have already been brainwashed into believing that it is somehow a binary choice - capitalism or communism. Exactly what those in charge with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo would like you to think.

Please enlighten us then

capitalism was never anything more then a pyramid scheme

@Iggly

As is always the case, people in capitalist societies sit on their computers, bashing the keyboard against capitalism, while those living in alternative systems are literally dying to cross borders to live in capitalist societies. But I’m sure the irony is lost on the former

The problem with capitalism as it stands is that once you have wealth (or capital), then unless you fuck up, you can hand it down to generations and there’s no “reset” to ensure that everyone in the future can truly have an equal chance to succeed.

It’s that ingrained accumulation of wealth over the generations that slowly tips the balance to the 1%.

We need better taxation to tackle that problem. Inheritance tax, wealth tax. Then it gets redistributed and people can have the chance to succeed.

you can hand it down to generations and there’s no “reset” to ensure that everyone in the future can truly have an equal chance to succeed.

Inheritance tax is huge

aibu To think that capitalism is a load of old shite?

Signed Jeremy Corbyn age 74 and three quarters.

Inheritance tax is huge

Inheritance tax is not huge. And there are plenty of ways to avoid it.

@streamee the wealthy have many ways to bypass tax and also ways to bypass inheritance tax. Loads of loopholes using trusts and shell companies.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money

…and the problem with extreme capitalism is that the richest and most powerful take everyone else’s money. And assets, and the possibility of assets, and the possibility of change. As we see daily. It’s a question of checks and balances.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money

The problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of natural resources. Which is slightly more of a problem than money, not being am artificial social construct.

We are in Denmark, it has advantages (low cost child care, very family oriented, good healthcare , public utilities, great transport here in Copenhagen) it has disadvantages- very high tax and beauracratic— it is social democratic and has good support networks it is also exceptionally capitalist— I think that would suprise some people— if they can charge you, fine you or tax you— they will.

I said nothing about extreme capitalism and that would be more akin to communism wouldn’t it? Is that what you proposing?

And no capitalism itself doesn’t require infinite growth in terms of quantity used, more it’s value.

For example, it would require making it easier for more people to have more books, through for example digitalisation, as opposed to having to cut down more trees which would be more labour intensive as well as bad for the planet. Capitalism should makes it easier to do (as that is infinitely more profitable) and easier is not often using more resources to do it. Just slows down the production process.

Commercialisation is the hoarding of stuff and purchasing unneeded crap because of general self worth through physical things. May be connected but a different thing.

It has long been noted that extremes resemble each other. Ultimately politics is about who holds resources and power and who doesn’t. What we are seeing everywhere, it seems, is a grab for both and an absolute refusal to acknowledge any beginning inequality, inequality of opportunity, traditional distribution or right to gain through work. All is now about honouring prior possession and inheritance through families. No it is not what I want, I thought that was clear. Once again we have to state very clearly that communism, as in total state ownership, is not the only system in opposition to possession by a privileged few.

I think unbridled capitalism is an issue. The gap between the wealthiest and poorest and everyone doesn't need to be SO big.