To feel distressed and heartbroken re Ukraine’s increasingly desperate pleas for help?

[UltraLightfly]

You can hear the desperation in their president’s (and former presidents) voices now. They are BEGGING for physical help. Begging for a no-fly zone to be implemented.

I KNOW we can’t do anything as it’ll cause WW3, but tonight, listening to a former presidents and the current presidents desperate pleas is actually quite distressing. Heartbreaking. Those poor people being left to their fate with the Russians

[quote TellMeMoreHellebore]@ChardonnaysPetDragon stop what? contributing my opinion to a thread? not a chance, not a chance![/quote]
But you didn't present it as just an opinion though did you? You spoke as though what you were saying was a fact, you have no clue and posting the way you did will do nothing other than spread misinformation and fear.

@TellMeMoreHellebore

to be honest we are just delaying it

ww3 is inevitable. it will happen because it wont stop at ukraine.

herding the whole of ukraine into other countries....feels like he's rounding us all up. also feels like we[ve not yet met the might of the Russian forces. he's sent out kids in antiquated tanks. wheres the bigger, better tanks?

Is that you putin

Rubbish! Stress has absolutely no effect on development and saying it does is unkind.

^ This is utter bollocks

It is a VERY well documented fact that stress is bad for the unborn child - there is a weight of medical evidence for this so it is simply undeniable (a simple Google search will tell you this). It is not “unkind” to give advice based on this fact.

The pp who suggested a break from news coverage for OP while pregnant is absolutely right - there is nothing to be done by exposing yourself to more coverage of this ghastly situation than absolutely necessary at a time when you need to be relaxing as much as possible. Donate money, sign petitions, write to your MP to put pressure on the government to help refugees… find small ways to help but please look after yourself - stress in pregnancy is no joke.

@Pyewhacket

I think we should start looking at imposing a no-fly zone.

That means shooting down Russian jets.

Why do we assume Putin would breach a no fly zone? Surely he doesn't want war with nato anymore than we want it with him.

It feels more dangerous to do nothing. We're showing him we wont defend any non-NATO country. He'll feel emboldened. Where next. Surely at some point you have to stand up to the bully, no?

Re a no fly zone - I thought Ukrainian air space was ready closed? Would a NFZ just add an extra layer to this ie shoot down anyone who does breach the closure of the airspace?

You nailed it emma. "Mostly men".
Violent maniacs with nothing better to do than steal more money and power.

[quote RoseRedRoseBlue]@TellMeMoreHellebore pack it in. The OP started this thread because she is anxious and you come out with that gem about the inevitability of it all. Just stop.[/quote]
stop? you know what? i'll post my opinion like everyone else does....plenty of discussion here about it and i didn't use the triggering n word so used the inevitability word instead!! but i wont bother from now on...i'll use the same language

Yes of course it's just horrendous.

@WandaThePanda

Rubbish! Stress has absolutely no effect on development and saying it does is unkind.

^ This is utter bollocks

It is a VERY well documented fact that stress is bad for the unborn child - there is a weight of medical evidence for this so it is simply undeniable (a simple Google search will tell you this). It is not “unkind” to give advice based on this fact.

The pp who suggested a break from news coverage for OP while pregnant is absolutely right - there is nothing to be done by exposing yourself to more coverage of this ghastly situation than absolutely necessary at a time when you need to be relaxing as much as possible. Donate money, sign petitions, write to your MP to put pressure on the government to help refugees… find small ways to help but please look after yourself - stress in pregnancy is no joke.

Ah yes Google the fount of all medical wisdom. I’m amazed people still feel they need to go to medical school now Google’s here. Change your search terms and google will find you the opposite evidence.

@noblegiraffe

Why are people saying we are standing by and doing nothing? The economic sanctions are incredibly harsh, the Russian economy has tanked, their money is basically worthless.

How long can he keep on funding this invasion with massive problems at home?

yes quite. It will hit home soon enough once he realises the true extent....i dont think he's even in Russia right now though

@redglobox

Why do we assume Putin would breach a no fly zone? Surely he doesn't want war with nato anymore than we want it with him.

It feels more dangerous to do nothing. We're showing him we wont defend any non-NATO country. He'll feel emboldened. Where next. Surely at some point you have to stand up to the bully, no?

We're not doing nothing though. Russia is rapidly running out of money to fund this war. Pressure is being applied to oligarchs. Defensive aid is being provided to Ukraine. Much we don't know about will be happening.

Your definition of nothing is very strange!

We totally out number him in terms of everything expect nuclear war.

I wonder if the nfz is.also to buy time? To get everything to NATO borders?

That said, the alternative seems fraught with danger too. We're between a rock and a hard place. And all the while the Ukrainians suffer. It is gut-wrenching.

Our best hope is probably the combination of sanctions and businesses withdrawing from Russia. But who really knows. I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. I hope those who are know what they're doing.

@redglobox it’s just not true to say nothing is happening. You have a responsibility to educate yourself about this.

@Tigersonvaseline

We totally out number him in terms of everything expect nuclear war.

I wonder if the nfz is.also to buy time? To get everything to NATO borders?

@Clarabe1

I am two minds over this. On one hand I think we are at war already whether we like it or not because Putin will not stop at Ukraine. He is going to carry on unless he is stopped. On the other hand I hear all these experts saying a no fly zone will make it worse but is this delaying the inevitable and at some point we will be forced to get involved? Or do we wait until he breaches a NATO land? I have no idea…

I feel the same way @Clarabe1. He is holding the world to ransom with his talk/threats of nuclear. Unless he is somehow stopped, he won't stop, but how do you stop a madman with his finger poised above the bomb button?

@noblegiraffe

Why are people saying we are standing by and doing nothing? The economic sanctions are incredibly harsh, the Russian economy has tanked, their money is basically worthless.

How long can he keep on funding this invasion with massive problems at home?

I agree with this. ^

He may destroy us all even without us imposing a no fly zone, although it seems less likely. No-one knows what he'll do. Terrifying, but I hope the people making decisions are keeping cool heads and working on as many fronts as possible to rid us of that monster.

The west knew that Ukraine cannot win this war so I am unsure why they keep pumping them up with ammunition and then standing back. It would have made sense for Ukraine president to have stepped down right from the beginning. Civilians are being killed in a war that cannot be won . The west have egged this situation to a no return point. A no fly zone literally means no more us. Putin has everybody in a corner and there is no point the Ukraine government asking for something that they know would cause the world to cease. They could have given Putin what he wants whilst working in the background to take him out. The west is not clean in this and I suspect the Ukrainian government have been had.

I sympathise with the people but I feel their government has made it worse for them with the half stepping from the west.

Yes you're right of course Lockheart but it feels like nothing because we're not physically there defending those people who are being so brave despite their situation seeming so hopeless.

Of course it's one thing to take territory and quite another to hold it. I'm sure the Ukrainians will out up fierce resistance

@TellMeMoreHellebore that’s interesting about your military family - I have a lot of military family and they don’t think world war 3 is already happening or inevitable yet. I’m genuinely not trying to provoke, just highlighting that even if you’re military it’s still
open to your own interpretation even if it based on your own experience. I’d obviously prefer for my lot to be right but At this point nobody knows.
I do have a family member who works in communications for a government dept that has a lot of knowledge and is involved in planning for this kind of eventuality and she isn’t worried at all. I’ve not been privy to any details from her job of course but my motto is always when she gets worried I’ll get worried.

Although I have been very anxious about this, I’m not going to lie!

I wonder how much appetite there is in the west to cut off the gas supplies from Russia? If we meant it, we could agree to sell Germany some of ours, to share the available non-Russian gas resources for a while. I'd be willing to endure power cuts etc. if it means a quicker strangulation of the Russian war machine.

Did I read correctly that it's costing him $15 billion per day? That sounds absurd but...I dunno?

[quote TellMeMoreHellebore]@Fernsinthegarden we are a military family, this is a general view from friends and many many discussions

mumsnet doesn't need any help from me to 'whip up a frenzy' its second nature here[/quote]
Yes, I too am from a military family. I live in a heavily military area. I have heard very different views from many discussions.
You’re right in the second nature of mumsnet though.