When a friend wants dynamic to change, AIU to not go along with it ?

[beautifulsay]

A friend who I used to be close with, think contact every few days etc. has made it clear ( almost three years ago ). That she didn't wish for the friendship to continue in that kind of way.

She's had a lot going on and so have I. But the retreat definitely came from her. She made it clear she wants to talk only once in a while and just be cordial. Rather than actually meet etc. it really stung, not going to lie.

We have a lot of mutual friends and have seen each other at weddings a couple of times and always been very polite to each other and happy to catch up.

For some reason I don't have her on Instagram anymore but I can see she still likes a lot of mutual friends pics etc and sees people we have in common occasionally. I'm never invited, however I always invite her when I see mutual friends. It's very rare though that I or her see our mutual friends. But it just feels hostile to me, not to invite her to reunions etc. the things she's planned with mutual friends aren't really reunion type things. More like staying together to attend weddings we are all invited to. I'm making this distinction to say that there's never been a time she has invited everyone in a reunion type setting and left me out of it. Neither have I. I have invited her and she's not been able to make it. ( so she says ).

Anyway, it still stings. It's been nearly 3 years and we occasionally talk, but she keeps me massively at arms length. I don't like this dynamic. It hurts me and makes me feel rejected every time.

Can I just leave it now ? Or do I need to accept the 'friendship' the way she wants it to be ? I'll always be happy to see her when I do, say at a wedding. But other than that, I don't really want to write to her anymore and I don't want to invite her to things she never comes to, just out of some obligation - when she's made it clear she doesn't want to be a close friend to me anymore.

I think she messaged you occasionally to check she’s still got you dangling

In doubt there's that much thinking gone into this.

OP is probably a third tier friend to this friend. Not in the immediate circle or next level if acquaintances but some one she occasionally keeps in touch with.
I'm guessing she would be absolutely baffled if she found out the OP got giddy with excitement when she messaged and then is heartbroken when she doesnt get in touch for a while after.
If I found out I'd have that affect on someone in my occasional friendship group I'd be backing right off tbh as that reaction is extreme

Yet she does text and ask how I am at reasonable intervals.

But the bottom line is, it does not work for me this way.

If her (perfectly reasonable and civilised) boundaries ‘don’t work for you’ then that’s not really problem. For you, a friendship seems to be very much ‘all or nothing’. You can’t have ‘all’ with her so your only choice is ‘nothing’.

I have been on the opposite side of a situation similar to yours, where I was the one trying to dial back on the friendship because the closeness felt like too much for me. You sound like a really nice person but maybe also someone that certain people (people like me) might find a bit emotionally intense or full-on.

@notacooldad

I think she messaged you occasionally to check she’s still got you dangling

In doubt there's that much thinking gone into this.

OP is probably a third tier friend to this friend. Not in the immediate circle or next level if acquaintances but some one she occasionally keeps in touch with.
I'm guessing she would be absolutely baffled if she found out the OP got giddy with excitement when she messaged and then is heartbroken when she doesnt get in touch for a while after.
If I found out I'd have that affect on someone in my occasional friendship group I'd be backing right off tbh as that reaction is extreme

We were best friends for over 15 years and she was my maid of honour.

@newnameforthis76

Yet she does text and ask how I am at reasonable intervals.

But the bottom line is, it does not work for me this way.

If her (perfectly reasonable and civilised) boundaries ‘don’t work for you’ then that’s not really problem. For you, a friendship seems to be very much ‘all or nothing’. You can’t have ‘all’ with her so your only choice is ‘nothing’.

I have been on the opposite side of a situation similar to yours, where I was the one trying to dial back on the friendship because the closeness felt like too much for me. You sound like a really nice person but maybe also someone that certain people (people like me) might find a bit emotionally intense or full-on.

Well, I've tried it her way for three years. I also have every right to have my own boundaries I guess.

We were best friends for over 15 years and she was my maid of honour.
Yeah I get but dynamics change. Not always for any reason in particular.
My close friends have been around fo 35 years now but along the way we have been friends with others for about 18 years and then that friendship slides. Maybe an odd message or like in fb or something.

I can hear your hurt but the best thing to do is maybe look at other things that make you happy. Friendship groups are rarely static.

@notacooldad

We were best friends for over 15 years and she was my maid of honour. Yeah I get but dynamics change. Not always for any reason in particular. My close friends have been around fo 35 years now but along the way we have been friends with others for about 18 years and then that friendship slides. Maybe an odd message or like in fb or something. I can hear your hurt but the best thing to do is maybe look at other things that make you happy. Friendship groups are rarely static.

That's fine and I understand that. I just wanted to make it clear I'm not some psycho holding onto some friend who only ever considered me a third tier acquaintance. It was not like that. It may be like that now and though, as friendships change.

@newnameforthis76

Yet she does text and ask how I am at reasonable intervals.

But the bottom line is, it does not work for me this way.

If her (perfectly reasonable and civilised) boundaries ‘don’t work for you’ then that’s not really problem. For you, a friendship seems to be very much ‘all or nothing’. You can’t have ‘all’ with her so your only choice is ‘nothing’.

I have been on the opposite side of a situation similar to yours, where I was the one trying to dial back on the friendship because the closeness felt like too much for me. You sound like a really nice person but maybe also someone that certain people (people like me) might find a bit emotionally intense or full-on.

It does not actually need to be all or nothing for me.

I'm just finding it hard to adjust to the change in friendship. Maybe this particular friendship and the way it changed, does not work for me in this way.

I have plenty of other friendships where I catch up only once in a while with the person and I'm absolutely happy to have that kind of bond.

For some reason and I have tried- in this case, I find it hard.

I wish I could be bigger than my feelings here and I would NEVER tell her this is how I feel and I would also never be nasty to her about it. But I just can't seem to have a friendship on these very uncertain terms. Even my very lose and occasional friendships centre around meeting up occasionally for a coffee or what not. She always says she'd love to see me and meet my child etc, but when we try to pin it down, she always lets me down. And before you say I am trying to pin her down to meet, it's not like that. She suggests it sometimes and lets me down.

Also worth considering she may have some insecurities, e.g. she finds the responsibility of a very close friend too much. Sometimes insecure people really struggle to be close to people, as much as they care. It could be nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. How would it be to imagine that maybe your friendship on a closer level is just too much for her to handle with her insecurities, but accept that she loves you and just be kind when she gets in touch but to not take it personally when she doesn't. Even if none of that is true, it helps to imagine that there's more going on than you understand and just show empathy and kindness. x

Does she have DC? I find there is a gulf when you have DC because people without children just don't get that they are 24/7 and some part of you is always hardwired to be available to them as your first priority. I have some very good childless friends but that gap is noticeable. Less so now DC are away at uni but still there. It is particularly vivid if she wants children and couldn't or didn't have them. When I was going through IVF I found it almost unbearable to be around my sister who got pregnant effortlessly.

You mention things changed when you were pregnant.

Was she happily single or happily in a relationship herself at the time? Or is there a possibility she wanted to be in a similar situation to you and felt left behind or something?

You keep saying it 'doesn't work for you' to just be casual acquaintances and that you 'can't have a friendship on these very uncertain terms'. That's OK, then. Don't have the friendship at all, if the current state of things isn't acceptable for you. Lots of people have pointed this out to you now, but you just keep saying the same things over and over again in reply. People have also given you umpteen reasons why your friend might have wanted to ease off on contact with you, but you won't accept that those reasons might be correct.

It's perfectly OK not to be friends with her any more. You're not compatible and that's fine. Friendships come and go, and that's fine. It's normal.

I'm kind of stunned to see in one of your follow-up posts that you are still struggling to adjust to this after three years. Three years is a very long time not to have adjusted to a fairly normal shift in a friendship. And you also say that you're not usually 'all or nothing' about friendships, except with this one friend. You sound very fixated on her and your friendship and very intense about it, and I think you really need to make a clean break and stop obsessing about it.

I'll be completely honest. If one of my friends was writing about me like this, and was still fretting about the changed dynamic three years after things cooled off, and was 'excited' every time they got a 'hi - how's things?' text from me, I would feel massively uncomfortable with that kind of intensity. It's very full-on.

@incognitoforthisone

You keep saying it 'doesn't work for you' to just be casual acquaintances and that you 'can't have a friendship on these very uncertain terms'. That's OK, then. Don't have the friendship at all, if the current state of things isn't acceptable for you. Lots of people have pointed this out to you now, but you just keep saying the same things over and over again in reply. People have also given you umpteen reasons why your friend might have wanted to ease off on contact with you, but you won't accept that those reasons might be correct.

It's perfectly OK not to be friends with her any more. You're not compatible and that's fine. Friendships come and go, and that's fine. It's normal.

I'm kind of stunned to see in one of your follow-up posts that you are still struggling to adjust to this after three years. Three years is a very long time not to have adjusted to a fairly normal shift in a friendship. And you also say that you're not usually 'all or nothing' about friendships, except with this one friend. You sound very fixated on her and your friendship and very intense about it, and I think you really need to make a clean break and stop obsessing about it.

I'll be completely honest. If one of my friends was writing about me like this, and was still fretting about the changed dynamic three years after things cooled off, and was 'excited' every time they got a 'hi - how's things?' text from me, I would feel massively uncomfortable with that kind of intensity. It's very full-on.

Right, so firstly, I didn't post here asking what I may or may not have done to cause the change in dynamic.

Secondly, I am not intense about it constantly. Things remind me of it and it sets me off into a spiral sometimes ( not always ), because obviously this has caused pain for me that hasn't healed. So I've asked myself, finally, if it's just better for me to let it go. After having tried to just accept it the way it is and very often being able to and just getting on with it. On occasion it feels like a scab that's being picked at.

I posted here to see if people would say ' listen you're being unreasonable and need to accept the new dynamic, even if it upsets you still ' OR ' why don't you just get on with your life and leave it be if you've tried and it doesn't work for you'.

That's kind of what I expected. Whether I'm intense or it's my fault this has all happened and whether you want to be my friend or not, isn't really relevant. Whether I'm somehow a weird human being for still having hurt feelings about it and that somehow now justifies my friend having changed the dynamic and blaming me for it, is just not very kind. The dynamic changed because we changed. Our lives changed. I became pregnant and she was unhappily single and struggling. I don't think she wanted to be part of the journey. I still wanted to be part of her journey and a support for her, but my very presence triggered her, I believe.

For what it's worth, I'm not going to change anything drastic about how I behave here. I'm just not going to deeply engage in this anymore, even if and when she might try to engage with me or try to make plans. I'll continue to be polite, but I will keep my distance much more now, because I've realised that by doing so, I'm not letting her down.

Just leave it. I had a friend do this. We went from extremely close to her telling me she didn't want to hear anything about any difficulties in my life (out of nowhere I hadn't actually been talking about any difficulties) and only wanted to do fun stuff with me

Well I mean...what the hell do you do with that? Turn up for fun stuff and constantly edit yourself to make sure you're only ever cheery and never mentioning anything that might give your friend the blues? That's not friendship to me

I told her that and got a load of psycho babble nonsense back and also a lot of patronising bollocks about I was such a strong woman and would go on to do great things. Initially I missed the chat each day but nearly a year later I can see how exhausting the friendship it actually was.

Sack off this friendship. She's made it very clear. You'll be much happier with the extra headspace it creates

I would not invest anymore time with this type of woman, she is neither here nor there.. I wouldn't be craving a friendship with her, when you have the measure of her ways now.

I have a very good friend who just wants more time than I have to give (I have small dc, she is child free by choice), I am very far from someone who can’t ever be away from their child and I have a lot of freedom… for a parent of a toddler. Our schedules don’t match and we don’t want to do the same kinds of things or have the same priorities anymore. I want to be her friend still but I had to tell her I just can’t offer her what we used to have when I was single and pre kids. She’s not ok with that. I accept it may mean we lose our friendship but I can’t and won’t change my priorities (family and my personal well being). I think she feels really abandoned, I feel like we made different life choices and maybe that means it’s going to be tough for us to spend much time together for a while.

I write this because it could be some iteration of this has happened for her. She’s not mad, nothing specific happened, life just means she has different needs and a different amount of bandwidth she can offer.

That's a fairly big dripfeed OP.

Is there no part of you that can see that maybe continuing the friendship in the previous form was just too painful for her?

She backed away with as much grace as she could muster, because it was too difficult for her to share in the excitement of your pregnancy, baby classes, birth plans etc etc. She wasn't unpleasant about it, and she didn't hang around trying to put a brave face on things which could spoil a special time for you.

It's really difficult when everyone around you is settling down, having children and getting married, and you can't ever imagine that happening to you.

Perhaps her decision to back away was more about self preservation than anything else.

@Spartak

That's a fairly big dripfeed OP.

Is there no part of you that can see that maybe continuing the friendship in the previous form was just too painful for her?

She backed away with as much grace as she could muster, because it was too difficult for her to share in the excitement of your pregnancy, baby classes, birth plans etc etc. She wasn't unpleasant about it, and she didn't hang around trying to put a brave face on things which could spoil a special time for you.

It's really difficult when everyone around you is settling down, having children and getting married, and you can't ever imagine that happening to you.

Perhaps her decision to back away was more about self preservation than anything else.

@Spartak I don't know if that's the reason and yes, there is a part of me that can see that's why she needed things to change- which is why I wrote it here... she never told me that, it's only me who suspects this could be the reason.

Based on her comment about having different things going on that are not compatible I do think it’s because you were pregnant.

I’m sorry, that really hurts.

And 3 years is not long when 2 of those years were covid time.

Some friendships do ebb and flow, so you might be close again one day. For now, i think backing way off might be the healthiest way to manage your feelings.

I'd say you have friends in common but you're not actually her friend.

This wouldn’t work for me - sometimes friendships do drift or change their nature but I wouldn’t want to go along with someone’s new ‘rules’ in this way, particularly if it hurts. Suggest dropping contact and just continuing to be polite if you see her out:

Look in the nicest possible way she has tried very kindly to end the friendship. The friendship was obviously great for a time but that has passed - and you need to let it go. Same with the second friend. Now out gracefully.

People change and friendships wax and wane.

As you find yourself with a gap, so too do you have space for a better friend.

But if this is a pattern it might be worth looking at your own behaviour. I let people go when I find them too pushy.

This is upsetting you so don’t continue the friendship. Plenty of other people out there to be friends with.

She's unhappily single and you're in a relationship and have a child.

It sounds like she's jealous and knows she can't be happy for you and share your joy and excitement. Which is pretty shitty.

I have a very close friend who became really off with me when I started my relationship. We had both been single for about the same time after splitting up with the fathers of our kids.

She started accusing me of not being available which was rubbish because I had plenty of available evenings and every other weekend.

It made me feel guilty and shitty and she never asked or talked about what was going on in my life or with my kids.

So we meet very rarely now. We still have fun, but our relationship has changed.

She's seeing someone now and I'm happy for her. But I know our friendship will never be the same again. I am only ever happy for my friends and want it to be mutual

@Momijin

She's unhappily single and you're in a relationship and have a child.

It sounds like she's jealous and knows she can't be happy for you and share your joy and excitement. Which is pretty shitty.

I have a very close friend who became really off with me when I started my relationship. We had both been single for about the same time after splitting up with the fathers of our kids.

She started accusing me of not being available which was rubbish because I had plenty of available evenings and every other weekend.

It made me feel guilty and shitty and she never asked or talked about what was going on in my life or with my kids.

So we meet very rarely now. We still have fun, but our relationship has changed.

She's seeing someone now and I'm happy for her. But I know our friendship will never be the same again. I am only ever happy for my friends and want it to be mutual

I wouldn't assume she is jealous, that's pretty unkind. She has tried nicely to break ties and the OP has not respected her boundaries.

You have little in common except some mutual friends these days.
Forget it.