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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want my OH to earn more money?

350 replies

CafeNervosa · 03/03/2022 11:27

AIBU?

I’ve been with my partner for 8 years (not married). We have two children, 1 and 4. And a mortgage. He is a great dad (and I mean this - much more present, sensitive) and does at least 50% of the housework, if not more.

But, I’m getting increasingly angry and frustrated at our finances and how id like more money for holidays and to save!

I work 30 hours a week in a professional job that earns a £32k salary. He is self-employed in a creative role, and I’m never exactly sure how much he earns a month/year because “it’s not that simple” and it also fluctuates quite a bit… and he needs to keep money in the business for expenses, tax etc so his clear take home income is not that transparent. And it’s difficult for me to challenge big purchases when he says they’re needed for my business.

His parents have always been terrible at managing money and as such he has huge anxiety about talking about money.

When we bought our house i got him to agree to a joint account, and we agreed to work out how much our bills and reasonable other spending would be, and split it in proportion to our earnings. And keep the rest in our own accounts. I agreed to do this on his worst case scenario month. Basically I paid 2/3 and he paid 1/3.

Then he got frustrated that he had v little disposable income, and I agreed (in a v stressful emotional conversation) to splitting it so that we instead have the same amount of disposable income each left. So I now pay more than 2x what he pays - so I pay £1250 a month, and he pays £450.

This is never really enough to pay for incidental stuff though, like Xmas and birthdays and new shoes for the children, new furniture for the house etc so I normally pay for these out of my own leftover money.

I’m getting increasingly frustrated that:
a) I’ve trained to be in a seemingly well-paid job but can’t really afford luxuries or to save anything for a holiday or the future, because he doesn’t earn enough money. Am I unreasonable that I want him to be a better business person and earn more money, even though he’s very good at what he does?
b) that he won’t be really transparent with me about his financial situation - for example, I paid off his overdraft when I came into some money that I later used for our house deposit, and then we went on a uk holiday and he went substantially back into his overdraft on the basis that I’d said it would be nice to go for lunch and other things, without knowing that would be the outcome, because he can’t talk about it because it stresses him out so much. If I’d known we could have changed to cheaper plans.

Does anyone have any advice about how I can help us be more organised and transparent with our finances so we can be more in control - especially with someone who has an anxious history with money? I’m never quite sure if it’s that we don’t have enough money or if it feels out of my control?

OP posts:
mewkins · 03/03/2022 14:17

@usernamealreadytaken

Haven't RTFT but agree with *@zurala* - if this situation was reversed we'd all be supporting mum who is working, doing more of the housework etc and we'd be saying her partner is unreasonable for expecting her to contribute more money to the household so he could have more holidays and nice things. Funny old world.
I wouldn't! I strongly believe that adults in a household should have adult responsibilities to contribute both financially and to the household and childcare, regardless of sex. (But then I also think adult children should do the same and that goes against the majority on MN Grin ).

If this man was single, do you think he'd be pretending to work at at a creative self employed job and unable to house himself? I suspect he'd have got an actual job by now.

I also think the reason he isn't disclosing how much he earns is because he doesn't want OP to tell him to get an actual job. Far safer to be vague about how much his business is making.

LittleOwl153 · 03/03/2022 14:19

I think you are being a bit to transparent with him. Start putting some of your savings into an account you don't share with him. He sees this nice figure in 'the' savings account which he thinks is there for things like school shoes and therefore he doesnt have to worry. You are making it too easy for him to shirk his responsiblities by being to transparent - with someone who refuses to be transparent with you...

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 14:20

@Oblomov22

He's meticulous and works out his tax. What tax? What tax is he paying, on what profits, if he's only bringing home £450 per month, £5400 total. I call bullshit.
You pay tax on any profit over £1k Plus an interest income from accounts Plus NI if profits over circa £6k

Does he literally earn zero?

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 03/03/2022 14:20

@TheRealityCheque

Man earns more than woman:

Man need to pay more to joint finances to ensure both have the same 'personal money' left other or man is financial abusive.

Woman earns more than man:
They should pay the same amount into joint finances and he should haveess personal money. He's her partner, she's not financially responsible for him.

This place is so unbelievably sexist, it's unreal.

It's always the same story. Woman loves her job, earns higher than average for 30hrs-surprise, surprise. Man in the background having a nervous breakdown running a business should earn more. In fact post nervous breakdown he should dig graves for a living to support his family. The man can possibly be supported.

How about both parties talk internally, respect each other's opinions and make a plan suitable for both parties. The price for materialism isn't worth it IMHO. No one gives a fig about the latest kitchen-wallpaper-fashion-car-or any other external signifier of wealth.

The world is about to be engulfed in a WW and the op is thinking of adventures. Hmm

ChairCareOh · 03/03/2022 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the user's request

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 14:21

If he is as meticulous as you say it is

You just need to see his tax return

Job done 🤷‍♀️

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 14:23

Need any help off your high horse
@Hrpuffnstuff1

The world is on brink of WW in your words so you think
And you’re spending your time on mumsnet! 😀

ohlife08 · 03/03/2022 14:25

@CafeNervosa it's a tricky situation, I've worked hard in one job and climbed up the ladder to early a reasonable wage, whereas my DH has worked very hard to build his own business - meaning that he only takes a very minimal salary due to re-investing. Which whilst I would love him to take a higher wage, I do understand the need for re-investment to grow the business. Luckily, I do his accounts so see everything (although I do have to question some of the expenses when we are struggling on our combined wages!) but he has always been very open with money. I really do think the root of the problem is your OH's inability to discuss this openly with you, rather than the actual money split issue (having said that, I do think he needs to put more into the pot, just not neccessarily as much as you)
I'm sure it's something you can work out with some frank conversations though (no matter how much he'll hate it!!) Smile

BoodleBug51 · 03/03/2022 14:28

DH runs his own business, and went from sole trader to limited company around 10 years ago. He has always shared his income with me, even in our early relationship when I was earning more than him.

So your partner can disclose his earnings to his accountant but not to you?

That leaves 2 possibillities then........

  1. He's earning nothing and knows you'll be furious, letting you finance the family
  2. He's earning a good wage and hoarding it, letting you finance the family.

Neither are attractive, are they?

TravellingFrom · 03/03/2022 14:29

He willl have done last years tax accounts within the last 2 months. He will be close to knowing what this years picture will look like (in about 28 days time). If he keeps meticulous records he should be able to sit down with those 2 years and work out what on average his tax bill is and his business costs are to rough % of earnings. He should then be able to work out a resonable monthly draw down (even if that leaves a bit at the end of the year for unexpecteds) If he can't - his accountant can!

Yes ON PAPER he can do all that.
However, I don't know many self employed people who actually do their accounts for the year on the 1st April.
I also think that if, for yourself, you have no idea how much you are spending on each area, whether you are spending a lot/not much on yourself etc... then asking your partner to be on the ball in that way is getting hypocritical.

Besides, this will not tell him what a reasonable take out will be. It will give him an average, or an annual sum. But if he is working in the creative industry, then he is likely to have some good months and some nit very good months which makes things muhc harder to plan for iyswim

museumum · 03/03/2022 14:30

I'm self employed with a very variable income (many projects paying quarterly or on completion). I would hate to ever be low on money in my business account from paying myself too much.
So I pay myself a relatively low but absolutely set amount per month. It covers a share of the household expenses and my spending.

Then, at the end of the financial year I give myself a bonus (provided it's all been ok) and put that into family savings for things like holidays. That way I don't spend it before I know the business can support it.

TravellingFrom · 03/03/2022 14:31

@BoodleBug51

DH runs his own business, and went from sole trader to limited company around 10 years ago. He has always shared his income with me, even in our early relationship when I was earning more than him.

So your partner can disclose his earnings to his accountant but not to you?

That leaves 2 possibillities then........

  1. He's earning nothing and knows you'll be furious, letting you finance the family
  2. He's earning a good wage and hoarding it, letting you finance the family.

Neither are attractive, are they?

Or he is ashamed because he still have the weight of our culture expectation that a man should be the highest earner and he doesn't want to face to that.

Money in general is something that atracts lots of feeling, shame, guilt, embarrassment, should etc.... It's not always an easy one to approach and handle. As the OP ids finding out. She is clearly struggling to find a way to approach it too

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 14:32

The op herself say he is meticulous

So reasonable to expect he will submit by the April deadline

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 14:33

@museumum

I'm self employed with a very variable income (many projects paying quarterly or on completion). I would hate to ever be low on money in my business account from paying myself too much. So I pay myself a relatively low but absolutely set amount per month. It covers a share of the household expenses and my spending.

Then, at the end of the financial year I give myself a bonus (provided it's all been ok) and put that into family savings for things like holidays. That way I don't spend it before I know the business can support it.

And are you very cagey about this approach with your partner?
TravellingFrom · 03/03/2022 14:35

I still think though that there is something else going on and that he is not managing his money welel (not the business money but whatever he is paying himself)

TravellingFrom · 03/03/2022 14:36

@museumum I have a similar attitude except I tend to do every quarter

DespairingHomeowner · 03/03/2022 14:40

@CafeNervosa: you come across as very reasonable indeed, your partner less so

People having anxiety about money is fair enough, but part of being an adult is doing things we don’t like - such as facing reality or doing a job we may like a little less but that works better for our family

£450 working FT is a joke really: he needs to show you the accounts and pay a fair contribution as well as explore how to increase his income

The ‘emotional conversation’ is a real red flag: do you think you have strong boundaries or do people tend to guilt you/take advantage

He is getting his needs met very well, but what about yours?

Usually women who earn less do the bulk of childcare & wife work : is he doing this?

DO NOT get married to him, and DO NOT allow him to be main caregiver for your kids - or you are likely to be paying for him forever

Tbh, I just would not respect any adult (male or female) who would think £450 is a fair contribution to keep a family of 4

He’d have to grow up & support the family if you were not around: the only thing stopping him doing it now is that he has got you paying way over your share

VanGoghsDog · 03/03/2022 14:40

So, your take home is around £2,100 and you pay £1,250 to the joint account.

In order to give him the same spending money as you (£850), he pays on £450. So, his take home is £1,300?

If he's really only earning £1,300pm on 30 or so hours, his business isn't actually working out. He's earning half what you do (and to keep your spends equal you're paying way more into the JA as a proportion).

You do need to log all the family costs as well. Of your £850, I'd save £600, and spend £200 on myself (well, gifts, days out with mates, etc) and have £50 spare for extra family things. But really, all family costs need to be in the JA.

There's no way he should have £850 to spend on himself when he only pays £450 all in for board and keep! It's pitiful. He should be ashamed.

LowlandLucky · 03/03/2022 14:44

He is taking you for a mug, i bet his bank balance is very healthy. I would be insisting in seeing all of his financial records for the last 5 years.

CayrolBaaaskin · 03/03/2022 14:44

Also I think it’s fair enough in a couple of one earns more than the other. The issue here is that the dh earns so little- less than mw apparently. It’s fair to ask him to earn more in those circumstances imo

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 03/03/2022 14:46

@Landedonfeet

The op herself say he is meticulous

So reasonable to expect he will submit by the April deadline

January, surely.
Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 03/03/2022 14:47

My dbrother had this exact problem with his wife and her self employed business. Unfortunately many can be a vanity project when the family would ultimately benefit from them just being employed.

I have been self employed for 15 years and if I was only earning 1k on 30hrs a week I would be looking at why ? Honestly I don't know how you go forward with his attitude towards talking about it. Ultimately that's the problem

MrKlaw · 03/03/2022 14:49

I'm shit with money and my wife is not. I don't know how much progress you'll get without transparency from DH and willingness to be open about his finances.

I found it much more managable once over the initial stress to have everything down on a spreadsheet
If he's self employed, no matter how 'complicated' it is, he has to have records for HMRC. And normally holding back money for tax etc isn't more than a year so if he's done it for a few years he should have a pattern built up to know how much to offset for the next year etc.

All of this really should allow him to understand how much money is available to pay him as a wage (or dividend), and how much he wants to re-invest into the company. That second part is arguably a discussion to be had with the two of you. Not suggesting he'd throw money away, but his ambitions for growth etc do need to be balanced wiht the needs of the whole family.

MzHz · 03/03/2022 15:00

[quote CafeNervosa]@Motnight this is what I’d like. I have no expectations of being supported by a man with a big salary. I’d just like to feel respected and trusted with his financial information.[/quote]
Just as well, as it won't ever happen. his 'business' won't take off any time soon because it doesn't have to.

He has NO plans to step up, none to open up to you because EITHER you would come to the obvious conclusion that his efforts are a waste of time and are not providing anything other than a token amount and an illusion of work.

He chips in when he thinks you're short, so that suggests to me that he can chip in a LOT more and a LOT earlier in the process.

You are earning a good amount, but depending on location, that will not go very far for very long and your kids are little. You are forgoing the years when they are little because you are the one sustaining the family, he is wrapping around with childcare and drop-offs and housework. That may work now, but you will get tired of this, it will wear you down. You will resent him and his little job.

When you got the mortgage, did his finances come into it at all? I'm guessing not.

In my view, he wants to keep all the money stuff to himself so that he doesn't have to chip in so much. if he had the upbringing you say he did, he'd absolutely understand why you wanted clarity.

You have a very expensive Cat. I think you should consider rehoming him.

Landedonfeet · 03/03/2022 15:01

Yes of course

So after 28th Feb - penalty

The op says he’s meticulous

So he will have submitted in time.

Otherwise, not meticulous!