'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

I agree in general but I know one or two specific individuals who are Polish and working with people on the ground. In general though I wouldn't be donating stuff to randoms on Facebook, who knows where it's going to end up?

amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/25/disaster-aid-cash-not-clothing-relief-hurricane-harvey

OP, you are right to be cautious. It is a terrible idea even though it seems kind. So much stuff gets sent over that is unfit for purpose - too threadbare or dirty or just not needed. The logistics of sorting and storing unrequested material are a nightmare and costly. It is way better to donate new and nearly new items that have been actively requested by a regulated charity, or to donate money.

ideas.ted.com/after-a-disaster-dont-send-toys-or-clothing-send-money-heres-why/

@mpsw

It happened a lot during the Bosnian war in the 90s, and I think is connected to the war being in Europe and so within reach.

And yes, dealing with wandering aid convoys in volatile areas is just another problem. When peacekeeping, you have to keep them safe (tying up personel and resources to negotiate safe passage and protect just in case) diverting effort from other tasks, and - unlike the larger charities - they may not heed security advice on routes/itineraries, which puts everyone at avoidable risk.

I hope, for everyone's sake, that any ad hoc convoys go no further than Poland and places where displaced people are receiving assistance.

And I wouid urge people to give money, if they can, rather than things.

This, absolutely. My relative spent the Bosnian conflict pottering round in a Luton van with a white linen suit, like a pound shop Mother Theresa. It seemed more about stories for the future memoirs than actual targeted aid

@forinborin- thanks for explaining this. I donated some warm coats and a bag of nappies, wipes, sanitary towels etc the other day to a van being organised by the local Polish community and was getting a bit worried after reading some of the posts on here
Community based efforts are usually quite efficient. It literally goes from door to door then, filling in the cracks where larger aid charities sometimes don't reach.
Steve from the pub with no connection to anyone from that side - don't do it Steve, you are the problem. Maciej or Wladimir who run their own van and deliver to their mum's church in a town that went from the population of 500 to popuation of 3000 almost overnight are doing a great job.

I was thinking this too, I remember after Grenfell Tower there were requests for clothes and toiletries, There were mountains of donations at a church near us and I think every London borough must have done the same. It’s nice to feel like you’re doing something but you have to wonder if that’s all you’re doing sometimes.

I've been wondering about this as well. They do t seem to have links with any organisations and are just heading to Poland with no specific destination known.
I can imagine they will be overrun with random stuff and no way of sorting or organising it at the other end. Who's going to take these donations and give them out?

It makes much more sense to donate money to charities if proven legitimacy because they will try to source supplies locally and therefore spend the money in the countries most directly impacted by the influx of refugees.

It offsets some of the economic strain and makes it more likely that the tolerance and kindness towards refugees will continue

We have friends organising a run to Poland, where the organiser has contacts. Much of the content is coming from Amazon so is new, boxed and labelled. The people on the ground in Poland have requested specific items and this is what is being sent. By all means send money to a charity - I have decided to send items as this is what I prefer to do. None of my money is going towards the salary or running of an organisation on this occasion - it is going to the people who are helping families who have nowhere to live, no possessions and need help. And this is being organised by a team of people who are not taking payment and are doing it because they are good people.

@labyrinthlaziness
You are simply trying to dissaude people from helping IMO, your thread is cynical, all done under a faux naive question.

I completely disagree with your deeply unpleasant assertions about the OP. The cynical one on this thread is YOU!

On the contrary, it’s been a very useful thread and has allowed posters with detailed knowledge of the developing crisis, to explain more clearly what’s happening with donations of items and monies.

Is this a good time to mention that Lumos, which has been working in Ukraine for years anyway, has set up a special appeal?

@DrSbaitso

Is this a good time to mention that Lumos, which has been working in Ukraine for years anyway, has set up a special appeal?

Yes!

I was wondering this too as there are a lot of collections organised locally - people understandably want to do something. Whilst this is very well-intentioned, I thought it might be better to donate money to charities. Even if individuals or local organisations are going from the UK, it would presumably be easier to bulk buy what they need at a hypermarket in Poland than collect goods here and drive them for hundreds of miles. On the other hand perhaps it's easier to ask people for specific things (e.g. nappies and thermal blankets) than to just get them to donate money.

I expect the people sheltering in kyiv, in kharvik, in Mariupol, etc would rather we kept the borders as clear of traffic as possible so that military aid can get through. I expect that they don't want the military aid getting stuck behind a load of lorries containing clothes and toothpaste. Every extra truck with a well meaning volunteer risks clogging up vital routes

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/western-arms-supplies-for-ukraine-how-are-they-getting-there/a-60959864

@ThoseFestiveLights

Seems to be the polish community here running this. They have a list of things which seems to make a lot of sense (thermal underwear, supplies for babies) so I suspect they have local contacts.

Yes, in our area the collections are being organised by a local Polish group. Donated items are going to Poland today to be used by refugees.

Calais very much had this sort of situation on a smaller scale in 2015. People flooded the jungle with aid that was not appropriate or wanted, bypassing the established warehouse.
The result there was chaos and pits full of rotting clothing that then encouraged an explosion in rat population.

Eventually the message got out, people generally went through established charities there, with UK aid groups directly linking into those charities and were able to distribute appropriate aid with dignity.

Even now though, volunteer time is taken up with sorting out donations some of which are not useful because people don't pay attention to the brief.

It feels like the chaos of 2015 but on a much, much larger scale. Some organisations have established connections and routes to donating aid. But there are far too many people collecting with no idea what is needed or how to get it there.

There was someone on our local news the other night. He'd decided that morning to help and had filled a van with sleeping bags etc. He said himself, that he would head to the Polish border but had no other plans. 🙄 16 hours of driving and then just see what happens!

Our local hub has supplies going to Poland, they have issued a very sensible list with nappies, baby supplies and first aid stuff. The drivers are members of the local Polish community and they have done similar runs before and say it is faster than the big agencies. They are sorting it all and packing into labelled boxes. I have donated to Save The Children, but I have my car boot full of supplies for the hub too.

Having worked in both international charities, public services and CVS, I wouldn't be too worried about the difference in organisation and logistics ability.

Some of the major charities and public services I have worked in or with, have been very poorly organised and the processes they have in place are lengthy and have actively hindered, rather helped the distribution of aid. They have a much more long term, strategic view.

Some of the refugee CVS I work with are more reactive, swift and useful and have local contacts, who know the geography and culture and a locality view of the situation, and in the short term it works well. I would not under estimate them, I think they will be taking charge on the ground. If you choose to give money though, they will be able to buy more stuff in the locality due to exchange rates and things that are useful, familiar and comforting goods. This is interesting about culturally sensitive aid:
www.unaa.org.au/2016/10/05/the-need-for-cultural-sensitivity-in-humanitarian-aid/

Access is the main issue. At the moment there is direct access into the Ukraine from Slovakia, and people are still entering - people are returning to fight, some people are returning from abroad to collect their children/disabled relatives and some people have been asked to work there, drive in to deliver supplies etc. Getting aid to people in to Ukraine needs consideration too. Not just refugees on the borders, I think this is where the international charities like Red Cross will come into their own.

I used to work for the Red Cross and I'd always advise giving money to them in these situations. They are on the ground in any crisis, highly experienced, know what people need and have the infrastructure to distribute it.

My partner has been requested to drive his artic down to Poland. Full of aid.

Next week I think. He says he was contacted by another transport company in the last few days.

I think it’s awesome that people are willing to just drop everything and go

I think it’s an absolutely understandable reaction to want to send tangible things and feel that you’ve done something helpful. However, logistically, it is far better to donate to charities on the ground and let them do what they do best. There was an article in the Irish Times on this. They concluded:

with airports closed and transportation systems under pressure, sending physical goods is likely to add more stress to the situation on the ground

Yes. I follow an MSF doctor who's been urging people to give money instead. To MSF, UNICEF, Red Cross...
They know what they're doing and they know what's needed and where.

I logged on to a charity site. It said people fleeying unable to carry goods which are being left to pile up by the roadside. Most of the newspapers will have proper legitimate sites you can donate on