'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

@jugotmail

It is difficult when you want to help but know that there will always be someone to take advantage.

At our local collection point everything is being sorted into boxes and labelled so that it is easily transported and identifiable. Our items are being moved to a bigger hub at the end of the week and then on to the Polish boarder.

Donations can also be made to charities, in our case there is a national charity with its base just down the road. Chernobyl Childrens Life Line have been active in Ukraine and Belarus for 35 years and have strong, established links to get the money where it is needed now and for the rebuild when many others step back.

This sounds more useful. People on the ground with actual knowledge of what's needed and how to distribute it.

@Traumdeuter

Agreed - it is well intentioned but people need to leave this to the experts. Collecting donated items for refugees arriving in the UK is different altogether.

And if people don’t want to donate to ‘big charities’ because they spend money on admin and running costs - it takes admin to get food, medicine and aid into a war zone.

If you leave everything to the experts, you just get less help.

Why not let those who want to donate to Ukrainians in e.g. Poland do so?

How does it hurt you for another person to help, just because you don't want to? Poland is going to have so many people over their border in a short space of time.

Glad you posted that @trulyconfuseddotcom

It's an important message

I honestly don’t think the people who set this up, who are obviously well meaning, have a clue what they will do when they get there. Like there’s going to be one huge warehouse on the borders for random vans to turn up.
There are a few warehouses that have been set up, do you want contacts?

@forinborin

I have a lorry leaving tomorrow am, feel free to come and jump on it to see how it all works at the other end.

It would be very interesting for this to be explained, if you have time maybe you could post more because so many people (like @Blurp) are incredibly cynical/negative and assume they know everything.

The Church next to my work is doing this. I too wondered about the practicalities. As much as I'd love to spend my day off sorting bedding and foodstuffs out to donate, while feeling pleased that I can help, by doing something tangible and practical, I have no idea where they plan on taking it and how it will be used.

Back around 1990, my stepfather (he wasn't at the time) and his mate drove a van load of donations to Romania for the orphanages, which they distributed. However, it wasn't as active war zone so much at the time and everything they took was gratefully received.

I believe a truck near us is going to the Polish border, seems to be very well organised snd is specifically for refugees fleeing in to Poland. I was wondering about donating to Red Cross but read an article about how often the money doesn’t reach who it’s supposed to, especially in these big charities where so much gets diverted in to other areas. I have sent some warm coats and blankets instead. Have also been buying from Ukrainian small businesses over Etsy. They have really appreciated the custom and have sent some wonderful messages back ( some heartbreaking ones too).

To be clear: I'm not talking about lorries sent by organised charities who have people on the ground who know the area and know what's needed and how to distribute it. It's more the random "man with a van" ones that seem to have popped up, and who dodge any questions about the logistics.

Early days of an emergency the stuff comes from the community, as they have access and can see what's needed. As time goes by the international humanitarian machine swings into gear and distributions are more formal and targeted to what people need. That's not to say it goes wrong but the quality is checked and things are more standardised. These days a lot of cash is given out because the local market trends to respond very well to what people need, they have the logistics etc already, so although people like the idea of giving stuff, giving cash is much more effective. Imagine being sent a sleeping bag when what you need is shoes, or a box full of toiletries when you need medicine. Cash can be used for anything. The exception is when there has been total devastation, then items have to be brought in, ana lively second hand market follows quickly behind.

In summary, give cash. Give it to the big players or grassroots depending on how you feel but cash is the most useful.

@forinborin

I honestly don’t think the people who set this up, who are obviously well meaning, have a clue what they will do when they get there. Like there’s going to be one huge warehouse on the borders for random vans to turn up. There are a few warehouses that have been set up, do you want contacts?

Oh, no of course not - people who complain about others helping never want to do anything, they just want to sneer at others who do

@mugoftea456

I think you have a a point. Last night I saw one on an Amazon wish list. I loaded the basked with £200 of mini first aid boxes. Then my DP said are they really going to need mini sets with a couple of cheap plasters and safety pins. Probably not. I donated the cash to Red Cross instead.

The thing to remember though is that, assuming it's above board, the items are going to families.

Why wouldn't you need a basic first aid box? We have a few at home. Also things like calpol etc, standard family items.

@labyrinthlaziness I'm not being cynical, and I don't assume I know everything. But if I'm going to help, I want to know how best to do it, and I have questions about whether Steve from the pub filling his van with donations and driving "to Ukraine" is all that helpful.

I was going to go and buy some stuff as there’s a local collection for a convoy going on Friday. Having read this thread I am going to donate money instead.
I was thinking the Red Cross or UNICEF. What’s best?

@Bickles

I was going to go and buy some stuff as there’s a local collection for a convoy going on Friday. Having read this thread I am going to donate money instead. I was thinking the Red Cross or UNICEF. What’s best?

Red Cross have a Ukrainian crisis appeal that I've donated to. I'm sure unicef are doing much the same.

@LizzieSiddal

Hundreds of thousands of people are on the Polish boarder. I do think, initially it is a good idea to send things which are urgently needed. We have a collection point and the main items are toiletries, baby formula and nappies. If the refugees are lucky enough not to need them, then local people can use them.

But all major organisations eg Red Cross and Unicef ask people never to send formula. I’ve seen people asking to donate it to various hubs near here and it’s declined every time. I guess this is the point, with how coordinated is it?

The only one locally I'd consider is the one that is being run by our local Polish community as they have made it very clear they do know what they are doing

Is there stuff for the cash to be spent on though? I presumed there would be shortages?

@labyrinthlaziness I think your is misplaced actually. Very many things have a black market value. You think someone (Russian or otherwise) can’t make a profit from selling stolen tampons? Of course they can.

Individually organised vehicles are less cost effective than cash donations to experienced charities, for sure.

But - that’s not the reality, that people would choose one or the other. Giving actual physical items is much more motivating to many people. Like foodbank boxes here. You have to keep in mind that these aid runs aren’t replacing cash donations, they are additional to it. And that’s for specially bought items - when it comes to that outgrown child’s coat you’ve been meaning to eBay or charity shop for a year, an aid run is a big motivator.

I work in logistics and I also think 🙈
But then I remind myself - it’s accessing a donation stream that wouldn’t otherwise happen.

Why wouldn't you need a basic first aid box? We have a few at home. Also things like calpol etc, standard family items.

There are probably lots of things that are vaguely useful in some specific circumstances but I’m sure the £5 cash rather than a £5 first aid box would be far, far better and that’s the point.

[quote Blurp]@labyrinthlaziness I'm not being cynical, and I don't assume I know everything. But if I'm going to help, I want to know how best to do it, and I have questions about whether Steve from the pub filling his van with donations and driving "to Ukraine" is all that helpful.[/quote]
You are simply trying to dissaude people from helping IMO, your thread is cynical, all done under a faux naive question.

If you want to help, go to the website of the Ukrainian Center London. They have a good list of local initiatives, mostly humanitarian, some journalistic and military. These are predominantly Ukrainian-run, meaning they set the priorities and have lower overheads (a big problem in the humanitarian/aid sector). Donating to the Red Cross means a big part goes lost on absolutely huge overheads, same with UN organisations. However, as soon as cities are properly besieged and the Red Cross are likely to be the only ones allowed to offer relief, that becomes a good option. This is at least how I am doing it.

I have given to the Red Cross. There will be opportunists among the many good people and it's not cynical to acknowledge that.

It would be very interesting for this to be explained, if you have time maybe you could post more because so many people (like @Blurp) are incredibly cynical/negative and assume they know everything.

Problems are now not on the EU side (it is very well provisioned), but on the Ukrainian side. A lot of people are stranded there waiting for the border crossing, women with children mainly. Money at the moment is not an issue, a lot of usual distribution logistics has been cut off. Many shops are not even opening.

It is organised in a grassroots way (i.e. you collect locally, and source the transport locally if you can), but there are coordinators too who direct the traffic, and there are centralised lorries running where you can book the space for your stuff.

We don't collect all random shit, there are lists sent from volunteering organisations on that side of what is currently in short supply. I turn away probably 50% of what people bring.

We drop off with a warehouse that has been set up on the border, my friend's husband is running a van. Ukrainian volunteers come and take it from there into the country to distribute further. They do it through the established community centres, churches and schools. Some of it (mainly sleeping bags, foam mats etc) goes further to cities where the supply lines are still running (there is one into Kyiv) and where they are more needed. You cannot buy a sleeping bag in Kyiv now with all the money in the world, it has to be brought in from somewhere. There is Red Cross who are doing a great job, but they (quite rightfully) focus on things like critically ill people, diabetes suffereres (no insulin anywhere now), anti-epileptic medicines, babies born (it is a 3-4 million metropolitan area) etc.

If I am accused one more time of trying to profiteer from selling mismatched tubes of toothpaste, honestly I'd cry.

And I think all these efforts will naturally die off in the next few weeks as usual humanitarian charities get more and more involved on a more wholesale basis. It was a lifeline for many people in those first days though.

There is a local " man with a van " who left yesterday with a van full of sleeping bags , blankets , hats , gloves , wash bags for male and female , water , biscuits , toys , books , colouring pencils and books for children

I was glad to donate to him all I could
He has left his Polish wife and children behind on their own and funding this journey himself .. just to do what he can to help

Don't look for the bad in people at a time like this

I am really concerned about this. I think it could cause absolute chaos at the borders of Ukraine, on exactly the road network that is needed for humanitarian and military aid to get through to Ukraine.