'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

The collections we’ve donated to locally are being run by the Polish community who have contacts on the Polish / Ukrainian border as to what is needed and the collections are going to where it’s needed. The Polish and Ukrainian communities have been absolutely outstanding.
We’ve also made monetary donations to established charities experienced crisis and conflicts.

@nonevernotever

ukrainianinstitute.org.uk/russias-war-against-ukraine-what-can-you lots of links here for trusted organisations working there that you can donate to.

Thank you, that's helpful.

Just to add - I completely understand people taking things to organisations in neighbouring countries who are helping. I've a friend in Romania who's church is helping refugees. She has a cousin or something who's taking a van over and she's asked for lots of very specific things. I understand that; her cousin sorts the stuff before he takes it; he drives to where she lives (he's been before) and she knows what she'll do with it all when it arrives. It's stuff she can't get locally. Likewise for the Polish associations collecting donations.

It's the random blokes who appear to be "driving to Ukraine" that I have a question mark over. Again, I fully believe they are genuinely trying to help, I just wonder whether it's a bit misguided.

It does cause chaos. I've worked in aid for 20 years and we call this the 'disaster within the disaster'

There are some really good links here to ways you can help reputable organisations with the logistics knowledge needed (and the nous to not get in the way of military and medical aid)

Or campaign for opening up of UK borders to Ukrainian refugees. Write to your MP. My relative still wouldn't qualify for a visa. She doesn't want clothes or toothpaste she wants to get to her family here . Sign the petitions about this, ask your MP what they are doing.

It’s not cynical to suggest that there are better ways of dealing with these situations or that money is better spent giving cash to reputable organisations who are experienced in aid distribution.

The reality is that while some people will go out and buy stuff, the majority will just donate their old junk, second hand clothes, half tins of formula, out-of-date cans of food dragged out of the back of the cupboard.

You only have to speak to anyone who has ever worked in a charity shop to know that far more stuff is thrown away and discarded than is ever considered resaleable.

Some people want to be seen to be doing the right thing and giving help now, others who are prepared to drive a lorry load of stuff from the local pub into a war zone without any consideration about their safety or the safety of others around them just want to be seen to be heroes.

The majority near me have been going to Poland and its polish people who have been organising where the deliveries have to go and its specially for Ukrainian refugees who have made it to Poland.

I guess I would have previously thought like this to be honest but a few years ago a local mum set up a small charity from her garage collecting and processing good quality used kids and baby things. She now has a massive warehouse and army of volunteers. You would think that some big charity or NHS or council funding wouldn't allow kids to be left without in a middle class city but it's simply not true, she gets referrals constantly from mums sleeping on a mattress on the floor with all of her kids. She had 12 referrals for everything required for women who left DV in January alone. Sometimes the big charities cannot cover the level of poverty and if people are trying to help in any way they can then I don't think that's a bad thing. Also I got an email yesterday saying my gas and electric bill is going up 43% in April. Not everyone has cash to donate right now.

@FirewomanSam

I think this thread is really unhelpful. People are assuming those collecting don’t have a plan and are just going to ‘turn up’ but have you actually asked any of them? All the ones I’ve seen (and donated items to) have family or other contacts in Ukraine who are asking for specific items which the people this end are then sourcing or requesting. Lots of them have military and/or medical experience and are asking for volunteers who have similar backgrounds to help with the deliveries. It’s not just ‘some random bloke from the pub’ loading his transit van with plasters and heading to Poland on a jolly.

I’ve volunteered in Calais and heard people saying similar sceptical things beforehand about ‘vans full of stuff just turning up’ but there are people at the other end who are absolutely delighted to receive those vans. As long as the stuff is collected in response to what people on the ground have actually asked for (which all the ones I’ve seen have been) then I think these are brilliant initiatives.

It makes me sad to see people saying they’ve thought twice about donating items after seeing this thread. By all means do your research about who’s collecting, how they’re getting the stuff there and whether the items will actually be helpful, but please don’t just write off these kind of initiatives as a concept because they are doing vital work right now.

On Facebook, one of the collectors I've seen has been asked several times about how he's going to get to Ukraine and distribute stuff, and either the question is ignored or the person gets shouted down by others.

I would never discourage anyone from helping, but I do think it's important to ask questions before just blindly handing over stuff and thinking "I've done my bit now".

@trulyconfuseddotcom

A Polish lady posted this on our local FB group this week:

Please consider this before deciding how to donate to Ukraine!

Things require space, storage and people to manage them at their destination. Many Polish border crossings are already jammed with vehicles and people on both sides.

Your pounds buy more in Poland, than they do here. Transport also consumes additional cost. The humanitarian organisations which are on the ground know best what is needed and how to manage it.

People's solidarity and generosity is wonderful, please keep donating items you already have (eg sleeping bags). But if you're heading to the supermarket to buy stock, and have the choice, please consider sending money to an authorised charity, instead of full trucks.

Above all, if you're doing something, anything - thank you!
✌🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇵🇱🇺🇦🤙

Great message. Cash is best, but thank you for doing something.

For the avoidance of doubt:

1. If you have £10, £100 or £1000 you want to donate, do it to Red Cross, or British-Ukrainian aid. Don't buy a hundred of new colouring sets from the poundshop. Don't give money to unofficial collectors unless you know them very well personally.

1. If you think it might be a good time to upgrade your camping sleeping bag, or your trusted power bank, drop off the old one at one of those grassroots centres. Same with nappies that are too small for your child, for example if you overstocked for the lockdown. Or a pack of masks or hand sanitiser that is surplus to your requirements now.

I must say that I was completely overwhelmed by the generosity of British people. If I could hug everyone, I would (in a covid safe way).

Don't get me started on Care for Calais and other such nonsense where I have it on good authority most of the donations are immediately dumped by the not so grateful recipients.

I’ve been to Calais and been to the Care4Calais warehouse. People literally ran out of the camp the second the vans turned up and formed a queue to get whatever was being handed out that day. The group I volunteered with had a generator and a massive board covered in power adapters and people crowded round to plug their phones in the minute we arrived, so that they could contact families. We had medical volunteers who treated sores and upset stomachs and all sorts of other ailments caused by living in such conditions. I could go on. Please don’t sneer at these efforts which are making a real and important difference to people’s lives in the most difficult of times.

I'm in Poland so can tell you how it is with the donations. There are two types...to the boarder and to the places of stay. You have to think the people arrive at the boarder after waiting 30 hours...its currently -6 in the evening. When they get across they need food,water,blankets,maybe if they have babies pampers ect. ..then how do these people find or get to accommodation...literally locals have been driving them.lots of people have just been turning up with stuff.
The second donations are to the places we're they are staying. Often here it's more like clothes and toys for the kids. These drives are more specific...they tell you what is missing.
I think the best place to donate would be either to polish or Hungarian groups who know what's going on.

*On Facebook, one of the collectors I've seen has been asked several times about how he's going to get to Ukraine and distribute stuff, and either the question is ignored or the person gets shouted down by others.

I would never discourage anyone from helping, but I do think it's important to ask questions before just blindly handing over stuff and thinking "I've done my bit now".*

Fair enough, no argument from me there. Always wise to do your research! There are definitely some very well-organised and legit volunteers out there, so if you want to donate items then hopefully you can find one of those.

@forinborin

It would be very interesting for this to be explained, if you have time maybe you could post more because so many people (like @Blurp) are incredibly cynical/negative and assume they know everything.

Problems are now not on the EU side (it is very well provisioned), but on the Ukrainian side. A lot of people are stranded there waiting for the border crossing, women with children mainly. Money at the moment is not an issue, a lot of usual distribution logistics has been cut off. Many shops are not even opening.

It is organised in a grassroots way (i.e. you collect locally, and source the transport locally if you can), but there are coordinators too who direct the traffic, and there are centralised lorries running where you can book the space for your stuff.

We don't collect all random shit, there are lists sent from volunteering organisations on that side of what is currently in short supply. I turn away probably 50% of what people bring.

We drop off with a warehouse that has been set up on the border, my friend's husband is running a van. Ukrainian volunteers come and take it from there into the country to distribute further. They do it through the established community centres, churches and schools. Some of it (mainly sleeping bags, foam mats etc) goes further to cities where the supply lines are still running (there is one into Kyiv) and where they are more needed. You cannot buy a sleeping bag in Kyiv now with all the money in the world, it has to be brought in from somewhere. There is Red Cross who are doing a great job, but they (quite rightfully) focus on things like critically ill people, diabetes suffereres (no insulin anywhere now), anti-epileptic medicines, babies born (it is a 3-4 million metropolitan area) etc.

If I am accused one more time of trying to profiteer from selling mismatched tubes of toothpaste, honestly I'd cry.

And I think all these efforts will naturally die off in the next few weeks as usual humanitarian charities get more and more involved on a more wholesale basis. It was a lifeline for many people in those first days though.

@forinborin - thanks for explaining this. I donated some warm coats and a bag of nappies, wipes, sanitary towels etc the other day to a van being organised by the local Polish community and was getting a bit worried after reading some of the posts on here.

Our local Ukrainian Centre started collection appeals for specific items but the latest update yesterday is that despite efforts they cannot work out a way to get the stuff there so are now asking the community to run jumble sales and donate the proceeds which will have a better chance of getting through via official charities.

I saw this post and it really made me think. All this stuff will be ruined in the rain and turned into one big dump for the Polish people to sort.

@mugoftea456

I think you have a a point. Last night I saw one on an Amazon wish list. I loaded the basked with £200 of mini first aid boxes. Then my DP said are they really going to need mini sets with a couple of cheap plasters and safety pins. Probably not. I donated the cash to Red Cross instead.

Far more useful and appropriate. In my experience, the most useful thing first aid boxes have in them are scissors.

I think this thread is really unhelpful. People are assuming those collecting don’t have a plan and are just going to ‘turn up’ but have you actually asked any of them? All the ones I’ve seen (and donated items to) have family or other contacts in Ukraine who are asking for specific items which the people this end are then sourcing or requesting. Lots of them have military and/or medical experience and are asking for volunteers who have similar backgrounds to help with the deliveries. It’s not just ‘some random bloke from the pub’ loading his transit van with plasters and heading to Poland on a jolly. it’s naive to think though that there wont be some who don’t actually have a plan and who will turn up with a lorry load of stuff.

if you’re going to be collecting and distributing aid in a foreign country then it’s not unreasonable to say that you are in part accountable to those who are going to donate to your efforts, to at least have a plan as to how things are going to be distributed.

People should always find out exactly how the plan is supposed to work and what processes in place to make this work for the specific individual before just blithely handing over a load of stuff which might never actually reach its destination because of poor planning.

@clarrylove

I saw this post and it really made me think. All this stuff will be ruined in the rain and turned into one big dump for the Polish people to sort.

Jesus what a state. I think we just need to leave it to the professionals who know the logistics and what is needed

If anyone wants to donate please consider donating to the Salvation Army who are already based there and in many of the surrounding countries where they have set up centres to welcome refugees. You can donate via their website.

You are right to be concerned. There is a well known disaster problem where unneeded donations often of poor quality cause many more problems than they solve. Suggest reading someone like Prof Lucy Easthope or Sam Montano on this.

I think some of the worst examples I’ve seen are landing strips full of out of date pharmaceuticals which then mean airports can’t operate properly.

In areas with natural hazards causing disasters it can also disturb the local economy which hinders recovery. Money donations are the answer.

Someone near me is on their way back after taking a van load of supplies to a refugee centre on the polish border with Ukraine and his cargo was gratefully received.

I wondered this too. Had a list of stuff to buy then sat down and donated to 3 charities instead.

I thought it was a cop out for me just to click and send money but glad to see others are recommending this method to help.

The first facebook post i saw appeared to come from the polish community here who have links with the border towns.

However since then I have seen that exact same post, worded exactly the same, presented by many different sources. Which makes me think people are c&p randomly, and at best it’s disorganised chaos, at worst a scam.

Poland and Romania presumably aren’t suffering from shortages and already have commercial supply chains in place. So why do they need vans full of stuff? Surely money to go and buy clothes etc a local stores is better?

Think about it, if 100000 refugees suddenly appeared in Leeds, would we need hundreds of french vans making their way up the M1 with stuff donated by french civilians, or would it be easier to go to primark and aldi with donated cash and buy only what is needed?

I do think sometimes the need to be seen to do something overrides what actually is needed.

The reality is that while some people will go out and buy stuff, the majority will just donate their old junk, second hand clothes, half tins of formula, out-of-date cans of food dragged out of the back of the cupboard

exactly, I and others have made this point on another thread too.

What would be good actually would be all those clothes retailers who throw returns into landfill sending those returns to organisations who can make use of them instead. They've generally been tried on once, so are as new.

@FirewomanSam

I think this thread is really unhelpful. People are assuming those collecting don’t have a plan and are just going to ‘turn up’ but have you actually asked any of them? All the ones I’ve seen (and donated items to) have family or other contacts in Ukraine who are asking for specific items which the people this end are then sourcing or requesting. Lots of them have military and/or medical experience and are asking for volunteers who have similar backgrounds to help with the deliveries. It’s not just ‘some random bloke from the pub’ loading his transit van with plasters and heading to Poland on a jolly.

I’ve volunteered in Calais and heard people saying similar sceptical things beforehand about ‘vans full of stuff just turning up’ but there are people at the other end who are absolutely delighted to receive those vans. As long as the stuff is collected in response to what people on the ground have actually asked for (which all the ones I’ve seen have been) then I think these are brilliant initiatives.

It makes me sad to see people saying they’ve thought twice about donating items after seeing this thread. By all means do your research about who’s collecting, how they’re getting the stuff there and whether the items will actually be helpful, but please don’t just write off these kind of initiatives as a concept because they are doing vital work right now.

It would be helpful if you could link to organisations who are known to be doing this effectively.

People aren’t questioning the idea, just the logistics.

It’s not quite the same as Calais because in that situation the U.K. is the neighbouring country and there is regular transport to Calais.

@KevinTurvysGravy

Someone near me is on their way back after taking a van load of supplies to a refugee centre on the polish border with Ukraine and his cargo was gratefully received.

Perhaps he had done his research and taken quality items that were actually needed, though.