'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

"Effective philanthropy" is the study of how to help most effectively - how to get most bang for your buck when donating. It's an established academic field. There are organisations which specialise in researching what help is most effective, scrutinise the impact of different charities, and advise people how to donate responsibly. Some of you might find them useful in future, even if not for this situation - the ones I know best are :
Givewell - how to maximise your gift's impact
The Life You Can Save
However, for immediate crisis situations like this, it's hard to assess aid in the same way as long term interventions. I usually support MSF - Doctors Without Borders as they are experts in getting help into war zones.

@TheOnlyMrsMac

Can I ask those wanting to help the people of Ukraine and considering a donation to think about Lumos? They now have a Ukraine Disaster Appeal to donate directly to but have been working in Ukraine since 2013. Ukraine has one of the highest numbers of children in orphanages and institutions in Europe. Over 100, 000 of Ukraine's most vulnerable children are currently trapped in its orphanages and institutions. 100% of personal donations go to help - not on administration and so on. Please be careful, as there are similar-sounding organisations - you need www.wearelumos.org

'Tis true, as per the 100% donation pledge.

www.wearelumos.org/get-involved/100-pledge/

Rowling is a heroine.

To the people who are irritated by administration costs can I ask why?
Donations come in as cash/cheques/direct debit etc..
This all has to be recorded, coded to the correct fund, deposited and acknowledged. That's before gift aid is even applied.
Then there's the queries from donors and the public, mostly mundane but some utterly bizarre. These are all answered.
All of this requires decent staff.

I've thought that.

I've no doubt it's well-intentioned, but I think things like this are best left to the experts.

Cash to the larger charities is likely to be a more efficient way of helping.

@Grantanow

Cash to the larger charities is likely to be a more efficient way of helping.

Not just the larger charities, but definitely cash.

Lumos does have admin costs though- in this case they are being funded by another don't, JK herself. It's not feasible to run a charity with no overhead. It irritates the sector quite a bit when it's implied this is a good thing (comic relief also used to do this, maybe they still do). Nice article here on this: www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/26/18103372/overhead-charities-effectiveness-donations-giving-tuesday

*donor

I've donated food packages through Share the Meal which I already subscribe to so it was straightforward.

[quote plantastic]Lumos does have admin costs though- in this case they are being funded by another don't, JK herself. It's not feasible to run a charity with no overhead. It irritates the sector quite a bit when it's implied this is a good thing (comic relief also used to do this, maybe they still do). Nice article here on this: www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/26/18103372/overhead-charities-effectiveness-donations-giving-tuesday[/quote]
What's "another don't"?

A good friend of mine travelled to Poland with donations. An ex friend of mine collected when the migrants went to Greece a few years ago and sold all the donations and kept the money.

@ImFree2doasiwant

Someone local to me filled his car with stuff and drove over, asking for donations towards fuel. I can't help but think that the money donated for his fuel could have been better used by donating directly.

Exactly, and he could have used the three to four days to do paid work here and donate the proceeds. Etc etc

A work colleague dad lives in Hungary and he has managed to secure a 7 bedroom house for free and he is spending this week repairing bits and getting it ready for 7 refugee families to live there for as long as they need. We are collecting clothes, nappies toiletries and food to send to the house for next week.
My company are paying for the truck and I'm a logistics coordinator so I deal with sending goods to Europe all the time, we have cleared space in our warehouse and it will be our job to sort the goods out next week, load the truck and make sure the customs paperwork is ok for it to travel.
I have asked friends and family for donations and also my sons school and my local Facebook page and I'm spending the weekend going out to collect donations. It's a small thing I can do but I feel like it's going to make a difference to have a more permanent place to go to sleep at night. Anything left over will be sent to the camps. So some of these posts you see are legit.

Donor. I corrected it underneath.

It's also tax inefficient. If you buy stuff here you have paid tax on your earnings & the purchase is taxed through VAT, if it's VATable. Charities are able to reclaim the income tax paid if you're a UK taxpayer, and some goods they purchase are subject to a lower rate (or zero rate) of VAT. They can also bulk buy.

@plantastic

It's also tax inefficient. If you buy stuff here you have paid tax on your earnings & the purchase is taxed through VAT, if it's VATable. Charities are able to reclaim the income tax paid if you're a UK taxpayer, and some goods they purchase are subject to a lower rate (or zero rate) of VAT. They can also bulk buy.

Also with DEC the govt is matching up to £20m plus if you're a higher rate tax payer you can reclaim the HR portion of tax paid on donations.

I pay from my business account and it's a tax deductible expense.

[quote plantastic]@Hedgecog (messy link sorry) if you don't believe me. Unless you're saying you know better than WHO, UNICEF and UNHCR? They don't all sit round making up guidelines for fun, it's a very well documented practice of Nestlé in particular.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.unhcr.org/45f6cb1f2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMo6vax672AhUDHewKHbeNDzIQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cip8d933Ar1PTRiuupM6R" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.unhcr.org/45f6cb1f2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMo6vax672AhUDHewKHbeNDzIQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cip8d933Ar1PTRiuupM6R[/quote]
In developing countries yes, of which Ukraine is not. And many mothers already formula feed there, just as they do here so it's not comparable. When the message is largely please stop sending us anything and donate, seems sad and a bit pathetic to try and highlight probably one of the things they actually need for a ridiculous reason.

@Lorddenning1 but why wouldn’t you collect money and then buy what they need when they arrive, supporting the local economy and not emitting a huge amount of carbon.

The camps and associate md governments have said they do not want items turning up there at all. It was even on the Radio One news today, a plea to stop donating items. They explained it is having a negative impact on their ability to actually help people. It’s kind but very misguided.

A work colleague dad lives in Hungary and he has managed to secure a 7 bedroom house for free and he is spending this week repairing bits and getting it ready for 7 refugee families to live there for as long as they need. We are collecting clothes, nappies toiletries and food to send to the house for next week

I think securing the property and adapting it is a great thing to do.
But I really don't get the point of collecting nappies, toiletries and food in the UK (the second-hand clothes maybe...) when you consider the prices of things in Hungary compared to the UK or other Western European countries.
The money spent on the toiletries etc in the UK and the transport costs would be better off being spent directly in Hungary as you'd get more things there for the same amount of money.

Exactly. There are plenty of supermarkets in Hungary. They have Tesco, Lidl, Aldi etc. 100s of them.

So much desperate justification for these runs across to Poland etc which you know, has shops etc. They should turn them back at the border. It’s all going to be in landfill. Maybe I should donate to Poland for dealing with all this guff being brought into their perfectly fine country.

I run a charity that support refugees.

In august when the Afghan crisis happened I was inundated. I still haven't finished through what was donated then and haven't been open to donations since.

This was just from local people. I can't begin to imagine how inundated charities in Poland will be and how they will cope from the whole of Europe sending them second hand clothes.

Just seen on sky news a couple with ‘relatives over there’ etc. gathering all kinds of stuff and “happy to be a part of it”. That’s what she said. Confirming my point that all this gathering stuff is about the givers and their feelings. Sky news shouldn’t be encouraging it.

The couple were asking for help r]transporting it all to Poland. Ffs.

We are collecting both, money and goods.

It's the same advice for formula for any emergency, not just in developing countries. The example given in the guidance is from Bosnia in the 90s- not a developing country. The guidance is to use ready to feed formula if it's needed. As you'll know, if you are on the move it's impossible to sterilize equipment and access boiling water reliably. And if it is needed, it doesn't need to be sent from the UK.

I have no issue with formula feeding at all, I do have an issue with Nestlé et al offloading pallets of short-dated formula with instructions in a different language as another one of their nefarious marketing techniques dressed up as CSR.