'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

Everyone thinks they're the next Oskar Schindler.

They probably fantasise about who will play them in the film as they drive across Europe....

Plus, all these people 'helping' refugees, means they may get lost without being recorded properly and given correct paperwork, visas etc. Not to mention being allocated to homes on record so they can be traced and contacted when needed.
I know many official centres are giving them SIM cards that will work as many Ukrainian networks are down. Things like this are essentials that can be missed when randoms start ferrying them about.

@VanGoghsDog

Everyone thinks they're the next Oskar Schindler.

They probably fantasise about who will play them in the film as they drive across Europe....

@Nat6999

My MP is collecting donations, I sent ds to B & M with £30 & told him to buy things like baby wipes, toiletries, colouring books & crayons for the children.

It’s a shame you didn’t see this thread first.

There was a message on my local neighbours group in which someone was going to do a fundraising hillwalking tour of the UK and was looking for sponsors with the “profits” going to Ukraine.

There will be lots of people trying to profit off this by selling tat, ‘fundraising’ etc. makes me sick.

I can't see many people offering to sponsor hillwalking tours rather than just donating directly to an aid appeal.

I was pleased to hear the woman from Dragons Den (I can't remember her name as I don't watch it) talking sensibly about this issue on five live this morning.

There will be lots of people trying to profit off this by selling tat, ‘fundraising’ etc. makes me sick

Waiting for the MLMer’s to catch on.

I recommend the City of Sanctuary UK website for guidance on how we can all best help the people of Ukraine, talk to children about the invasion, links to Ukraine-based journalism and so on.

I like to think most of these things are well intentioned (though inevitably there will be a couple of scammers in the mix too) but sadly I think they are almost always very poorly planned out.

There was a desperate plea on a local FB site yesterday at about 1pm for one such endeavour where they had collected bags and bags of miscellaneous stuff (nappies, toiletries, clothes, god knows what else) which was currently sitting in bags in a local church. They needed volunteers to come and sort through it, package it up and then load onto vans (vans and drivers which they were also appealing for as they had none) to drive to Wembley by 4pm to be loaded on a lorry. We're in SE London. It just looked so poorly organised and not at all thought out.

We're donating to DEC instead.

I can imagine people in the Polish community (and others) feeling they need to do something to help, but at that distance money to the Red Cross or Save the Children or Doctors without Borders really is the best option.

It's a different story here in central Europe, in our city we're now getting several thousand refugees a day ( up to 10,000 predicted today) who've just come straight through on trains from Poland, and they need very specific things here. The most obvious immediate requirement is somewhere to stay, so people have been standing at the station with signs saying 'I can take two people', 'I have a room for a family' etc. The local government here is rightly a little concerned about the safety of women and strangers staying in strangers' homes (who have not been vetted) so I hope something a bit more organised gets approved soon - it's very much a temporary measure to make sure people aren't left outside at night.

The list of objects being circulated generally is:
Blankets, sleeping bags.
Wet wipes, nappies, tampons.
Torches, batteries.
Cereal bars, chocolate, nuts, biscuits good for at least 3 months.
General non-prescription medication like paracetamol, aspirin, plasters, disinfectants, bandages.
Loaded power banks.
NO CLOTHING
NO FURNITURE (apparently it has to be said...)

After 2015, Germany has a lot of experience in taking in big numbers of refugees very quickly, and absorbing them into society. We can do this again now. The idea is to get refugee children back into school as soon as possible to give them some sort of stability.

Money is obviously the best option, but same could be said - is ALL the proceeds going to where it should and to whom it should be given to, or
Lining pockets of management? Hence why I don't give cash to anyone.
I have with my friend just went round my
Local hospital trust for all the 'out of date' medical supplies that we have sitting about that cost thousands. (Nurse) We save them for Malawi, etc or wherever it is a crisis. They go out of date but are still extremely usable. The dates are mostly for reordering (procurement). (Whole other topic on our nhs.) Anyways all this stuff has gone our local polish shop who are taking it in lorries to Poland/Eukraine borders.
My point is, these items are completely useless out with medical professional skills.
It is anaesthetic equipment, surgical instruments, airway instruments, and then general dressings, banadages etc. there is no other use for them to the general public except maybe the bandages. if they didn't go on these lorries they would not go anywhere except the bin, unless someeone from the trust took them to another country in their own expense. Covid has stopped all this.
I guess my point is, yes I'm sure the arseholes of the
World will be rubbing their hands with an opportunity to scam, but no one knows where we will
Be in a months time, better to have a warehouse of donations all over the place than nothing and another Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine etc. so to me the good outways the risks. This is human lives who a week ago prob wouldn't dream of needing donated items.

@LibrariesGiveUsPower

Yes I’ve been trying to figure it out.

I think the most trustworthy are those who have links in Poland or Ukraine who can work out where to take stuff.

This. My community has very strong links to Poland, including charities there, and lots is being collected (and sorted) to be driven there. They are asking for specific types of items.

They're all asking for specific items, but that doesn't mean those items are needed.

ideas.ted.com/after-a-disaster-dont-send-toys-or-clothing-send-money-heres-why/

That article is good. I mean, it’s common sense to me but maybe some people will take notice although, if they don’t send their kid to home bargains to buy crayons and baby wipes then how will they feel a part of what’s happening? What will they post on Facebook and mumsnet? It’s all me, me fucking me.

I haven’t decided where to donate to yet. I’m hoping to help the ones that come here but we will see.

I spoke to a Polish friend today who lives near the border - apparently the local council is asking any landlords, people with holiday homes, empty studios, airbnbs etc to rent them for Ukrainian families - money donated from the rest of Europe is being used to pay the rent.

This is becoming like the gift shoebox nonsense, that started up around the Balkans conflict, IIRC, and carried on with the Romanian orphanage appeals. They were seen as something to teach children about charity by local schools and ended up with people sending boxes and boxes of second hand Happy Meal toys or kinder egg trinkets that can choke small children, fragranced soap, flannels and stuff that they could have gotten down the road far more cheaply from the local shopkeepers (who were struggling to feed their families). It was a well-meaning small project that turned into a behemoth, and gave US Christian charities the opportunity to put in bibles and pamphlets with them for their own purposes too.

2-3 days after the war broke out, I saw voluntary organisations asking people not to send any more clothes, blankets etc. They need medication, power banks, sanitary products, toilet and showering facilities. There's already rubbish mounting up. What they also need is people volunteering.

The kids sports club has a room full of bin bags awaiting pick up. They are still encouraging donations, and there us also an amazon.co.uk wish list.

No indication of where it’s going or how it’s getting there, they’ve just said “for Ukraine” and apparently someone is picking it all up.

Do people not actually check whether they’re being helpful? I’m thinking the need to appear to help is greater than the need to actually help.

I’m thinking the need to appear to help is greater than the need to actually help

Agreed.

But just because someone is from a place doesn't mean that they are able to start up a humanitarian aid operation on spec.

Anyone who was involved with grenfell or some of the response to the London riots will know that people still donate mounds of inappropriate crap even if they live round the corner.

@crazeekat I am sure your intentions are good but Malawians do not want out of date bandages or medical equipment. They especially don't need it shipped from the UK when they can get it locally. African hospitals do have supply chains you know.

Aid and humanitarian workers should be paid. It's a job. A knackering risky one that does a number on your personal relationships. Do you work for free? Almost everyone working directly on a humanitarian response is local. Should they do it for nothing?

I coordinated our "sewing for the NHS" local group at the start of Covid. I saw first hand the crap people donate with the mantra of "you need to be grateful". Did they really think we would make scrubs from grubby 1970's chintz polyester curtains?
I doubt they thought at all, just grabbed any old shit they wanted to get rid of.

What we needed (and got, after applying for a grant from a local charity) was money to buy proper cotton, thread, fastenings, elastic, patterns/paper, pay for sewing machines to be serviced, etc.

About the middle of last year the three of us coordinators got together to sort and get rid of the pile of fabric that was still taking up most of one of our living rooms. It took us hours and we had stuff to throw away/send for rags, stuff to donate, stuff the group members could use, stuff to gift to a local charity that manages sewing projects that we have links with - but we really had to sort it carefully. And having done that we had to deliver it to the places it was destined.

So - please just give money. The people running the projects know what they need. You don't.

Some people still seem to have the attitude (including on this thread) that it's better to do something than nothing. That having a warehouse full of stuff doesn't do harm and might be useful. In this case (and in all disasters) it just isn't true. The detriment caused by sending stuff is significant - it takes up time, money, resources, transport, space (including airstrips) and can hurt local economies. If you can't afford to donate money please please please don't think you should do something else. Don't send stuff.