Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

[beachcitygirl]

Just that really. Sociopathic Patel refusing visas. In a time where we need leadership & empathy & intelligence there's a ducking idiot at the helm & Rees~Mogg making a fortune with insider trading.
Who the hell will admit to being so sociopathically selffish & grabby to still vote Tory?

Didn't know Wales was a sovereign country, with full tax raising powers and control of its economy and borders.

Who knew?

Plenty of wealthy people who avoid paying tax in the UK and the gap between earned and unearned income needs to close, why should our PM pay a tax rate on 100s of £ millions that is lower than a nurse pays inc his/her loan repayments which have just been made even more draconian - all in it together!

I vote Tory - can't bear Labour.

The point still stands. You can get Labour long term if enough people are dependent or lower demographic, or vote basically because someone else will pay.

Our state dependency is already very high so whoever is in next would be crazy to make it worse. Yes that higher dependency favours Labour staying in power as they do in Wales but it’s not a good outcome overall.

No it doesn't, we ve super high state dependency now, why? because of years of low wage growth now means half of all workers claim benefits just in order to live.
Yet according to you, its all Labours fault!!! much like people complaining about loss of female rights (correct) but instead of holding the Tories to account, blame Labour.

There is something very wrong when degree educated NHS workers are entitled to claim in work benefits.

Thats what long term Tory voting gets us all.

Going to work now :)

It is Labour’s fault. The low wage economy can be directly linked to the introduction of tax credits and the infamous 16 hours.

It’s more about what people are hoping for. It’s problematic when the state dependency is so high but it does inform voting patterns, hence Wales being Labour led for so long.

You do actually need people here to pay the tax burden, and all parties have realised it for decades, including Blair.

The Tories have presided over - and knowingly chosen - dropping wages, falling living standards, falling life expectancy, rising state borrowing and rising taxes.

The Tories have been in power 13 years. Where we are now is on them.

The OPs post is absolutely shocking in the true sense of the word.

Someone doesn't vote along the lines she morally approves of so they must be mad? What a truly disgusting thing to say. People are allowed their own thoughts and opinions and to vote how they like.

It's called democracy.

The Tories have been in power 13 years. Where we are now is on them.

Have they ? As far as I can tell they only came into power last year, when Rish! was forced to step in and pick up the mess of his predecessors. Not a single one of their statements or announcements makes any reference to them being the ruling party for the previous 12 years.

That was the other Tories @SerendipityJane not these great saviours. If only Rishi had had some input prior to this last year, we would all be in a much better place.

I was going to bite but it's just not worth it.

Bite?

You have a vote which I’m sure you’ll use as you want

The parallels between UK Tories and US Republicans (and I love the fact that the reporting now mentions "House Republicans" suggesting they are toilet trained) are in equal measures fascinating, terrifying and hilarious. Although it's possible the Tories have treated the cult of Johnson better than the cult of Trump.

However, casually reading the superficial reporting from the US, I am captivated by how the failure to choose a speaker (a much more important role in the US circus) is the fault of everyone but the Republican party.

I used to quite admire the US constitution. But it does seem they rather bought it on the cheap ...

Monday mirth:

I meant bite - you know the phrase?

I will always vote.

Why haven’t the Tories changed it in the almost 14 years they’ve been in power? Fiscal incompetence, that’s why.

Because the narrative is they haven't been in power for the past 13 years. Just read their messaging.

Remember how Remainers and Labour were copping all the blame when the Tory government (in a nod to the US Republicans) were unable to fucking govern ?

If posters are accepting this is a problem Labour won’t change it

YANBU!

The Conservatives have been in power for considerably more years than Labour since WW2. We simply have a centre-right leaning population, as much as a majority of Mumsnet posters would like everyone to be left-wing.

People currently disposed to vote Conservative are hardly likely to change their mind as a result of being insulted, are they?

I've seen far more insults levelled at Tory voters than Labour voters both here, and in general, much as I've seen more insults levelled at Brexiters than Remainers. Maybe it's because they were the 'losing team' in each case?

It's not because any one position or party is morally corrupt or inherently wrong, much as some might like to believe that. The parties are actually not that far apart on most policy issues when you drill down into detail. It's all air and noise. They're certainly less far to the left or right than in a lot of other countries.

It really can’t - there is much more to than that, but even if that was the reason, the Tories have had 13 years to sort it out.

If they'd done what they actually need to do to fix the problem, which is a wholesale reform of the welfare system so that it is a safety net for the most vulnerable, like it was originally designed to do, they would have been even more unpopular than they are.

Our expectations of what the state should do to support us, the standard of living they are expected to afford everyone, regardless of circumstances, is absolutely unachievable. And it all stems from tax credits.

It's all going to crumble, sooner or later, whichever government is in power.

Well it's pretty rubbish then.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-conservative-iain-anderson-election-business-b2430302.html

Tax credits is just another name for national assistance/income support first introduced in 1948, Edward Heath actually made it wide spread in the early 70s, before Lab added in the 16hrs stuff, there was no min hours....

UKs low wages are as a result of Austerity and pay freezes bought in by Cameron..... its why a AHP in the NHS is around 12k worse off than they were in 1999 and why we have such high welfare dependency.

Any issues we ve got now are as a result of Tory failures to change what they think Labour screwed up, if you can't fix things within 13 years, you never will & of course people want higher wages and less state help.... bonkers to suggest otherwise.