Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

@FithrightOpinions - how did you acquire your “skills, experience, knowledge” may I ask? Some people are being very short-sighted with an “I’m all right, Jack” attitude and a big foot kicking the ladder away.

I posted on this thread or another that ds, in looking for work, has seen so many internships axed. One was honest enough to say on their website, “Our internship programme is no longer running due to staff now working from home.”

Contact centre. I don't have time to drink a brew let alone speak to a colleague
It's much easier to hear at home too as no background noise

My contact centre colleagues all prefer to be in the office, but I guess it depends on the purpose / role of the contact centre.

Tbh it is everyone else who hates working in their vicinity, they are so noisy.

@Whitefire

Contact centre. I don't have time to drink a brew let alone speak to a colleague It's much easier to hear at home too as no background noise

My contact centre colleagues all prefer to be in the office, but I guess it depends on the purpose / role of the contact centre.

Tbh it is everyone else who hates working in their vicinity, they are so noisy.

Yeah I much prefer working at home. Control of temperature, no background noise We don't have meetings or anything so I'm not really missing out. Usually get chance to say half a sentence between calls

@GoldenOmber

But you'll find this opinion is verging on evil on here. How dare you.

I don’t think it’s ‘verging on evil’ at all, but it is perhaps exaggerating what ‘hybrid’ means in many workplaces and how much choice employees have actually got at the moment.

Many places are offering hybrid and will continue to. But the OP’s workplace is already one of those! Three days a week in the office and two at home is hybrid. When employers say they offer hybrid, a lot of them mean working patterns like that with minimum days in the office.

The pool of employers offering “come in as and when you like and nobody’s fussed if you want to be out of action between 3 and 4 for the school run” does exist but it’s a lot smaller. So if you want one, perhaps don’t burn all your bridges with your current employer while you’re looking, no matter what you’ve read online about the Great Resignation…

But the rest of the team doesn't want to go into the office and hasn't. Op was one of the few that bothered.

Really I question what is the point of hybrid. If you can do all of your job at home, then why does coming into the office matter, especially if they are staggering when people are in? Like my friend is having to go back in two days a week by her boss, but her boss isn't even in the office the two days she is there. None of her colleagues are there either, so she sits alone and still has to talk to them via an online platform. That will be my situation too if I have to go back in. What is the point of that? No face to face meetings still, no customer contact, no need to use facilities in the office.

What's the point? It's just a different location where your employees could be miserable. Some will like it, others won't. Give them the choice.

Otherwise they will walk. That's the companies problem though, not the employees. There's jobs out there for remote working, I could get one of those easily if my workplace want me in, and sadly will. Many others will too.

It's much easier to hear at home too as no background noise

That's not always the case though. I've heard what is clearly a radio or TV, noisy kids and, when I phone O2 a couple of weeks ago, sounds that meant he was obviously outdoors!

I'm also sick of 'I'm working from home so will have to send a manager an email' (Sky) and 'a manager will respond in 72 hours because of Covid' (also Sky)

Customer service has definitely not improved!

To all those saying how great working from home is, have you got dedicated office space and does your WFH set up meet DSE requirements? I don't have an office and my set up in the dining room would fail a DSE risk assessment and there's no way to change it and I'm know there are people far worse off than me.

There's jobs out there for remote working

I'm not seeing too many of these tbh. The vast, vast majority of companies seem to be hedging their bets on hybrid for the minute and seeing how it pans out. Which makes sense.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

It's much easier to hear at home too as no background noise

That's not always the case though. I've heard what is clearly a radio or TV, noisy kids and, when I phone O2 a couple of weeks ago, sounds that meant he was obviously outdoors!

I'm also sick of 'I'm working from home so will have to send a manager an email' (Sky) and 'a manager will respond in 72 hours because of Covid' (also Sky)

Customer service has definitely not improved!

I've posted this before Customers say to us about service. There is only me WFH. The reason they are queuing is because we are busy, and people have left. Nothing at all to do with WFH or covid Still have to send emails if I'm sat in the office or not, it literally makes no difference to my job as every minute on my screen is recorded plus audio, plus timed allocated breaks etc etc etc Customers are also a lot more demanding post lockdown

(I'm not working this morning!)

I question what is the point of hybrid. If you can do all of your job at home, then why does coming into the office matter

Well, from the perspective of a lot of employers, my job isn’t just the individual tasks on my to-do list. It also includes things that work better when people can collaborate and learn from each other in person. So the benefit of hybrid is that you get some in-person time for that side of the job while still getting to work from home some of the time.

Obviously there are some job where this doesn’t matter or doesn’t matter as much, or where you’d be the only person in the office anyway so what’s the point. But for a lot of jobs, there is a benefit to having people actually work together in person, which is why lots of employers are looking to hybrid rather than solely working from home.

Fine if people want to ditch those jobs and look for fully remote jobs instead. But expecting all those employers who see benefits in hybrid to stop caring about it is a bit naive. “On the one hand there are big benefits of wider collaboration and building relationships across teams, of learning on the job by watching others and of helping junior people develop - but on the other hand, Susie over there says she thinks we should all move to fully remote because she wants to walk her pandemic puppy at lunchtimes. What to do, what to do?”

@GoldenOmber

I question what is the point of hybrid. If you can do all of your job at home, then why does coming into the office matter

Well, from the perspective of a lot of employers, my job isn’t just the individual tasks on my to-do list. It also includes things that work better when people can collaborate and learn from each other in person. So the benefit of hybrid is that you get some in-person time for that side of the job while still getting to work from home some of the time.

Obviously there are some job where this doesn’t matter or doesn’t matter as much, or where you’d be the only person in the office anyway so what’s the point. But for a lot of jobs, there is a benefit to having people actually work together in person, which is why lots of employers are looking to hybrid rather than solely working from home.

Fine if people want to ditch those jobs and look for fully remote jobs instead. But expecting all those employers who see benefits in hybrid to stop caring about it is a bit naive. “On the one hand there are big benefits of wider collaboration and building relationships across teams, of learning on the job by watching others and of helping junior people develop - but on the other hand, Susie over there says she thinks we should all move to fully remote because she wants to walk her pandemic puppy at lunchtimes. What to do, what to do?”

But as I said, what about those of us who still can't SEE other colleagues at work because they are either on different days to come in, or they are in a different location? Many companies are international these days, I used to have colleagues in South America, Europe and Asia. I obviously can't work face to face with them, and many others have similar situations. Their colleagues aren't in their office, so why do they need to be there? What is the point of that?

I won't see my colleagues in the office, like my friend, but may get made to go back in for 2-3 days. What's the logical reason other than 'just because'?

As I said: “Obviously there are some job where this doesn’t matter or doesn’t matter as much, or where you’d be the only person in the office anyway so what’s the point.”

The fact that it doesn’t work for you and your job personally doesn’t mean that many organisations elsewhere who think it does work are all simultaneously going to ditch it if enough people call them dinosaurs.

Lots of people are not going to be able to walk out of their job straight into a fully remote one based on no more than really really wanting to and having read something about the Great Resignation online

I won't see my colleagues in the office, like my friend, but may get made to go back in for 2-3 days. What's the logical reason other than 'just because'?

They don't need a reason though. Presumably you agreed a contract which stated your place of work when you took the job.

If you want something different then you need to renegotiate that contract with them or get a new job which meets your requirements.

Still have to send emails if I'm sat in the office or not, it literally makes no difference to my job as every minute on my screen is recorded plus audio, plus timed allocated breaks etc etc etc

Wtf where do you work.

@QuirkyTurtle

Still have to send emails if I'm sat in the office or not, it literally makes no difference to my job as every minute on my screen is recorded plus audio, plus timed allocated breaks etc etc etc

Wtf where do you work.

In a contact centre, standard practice

But that's not the case with a lot of companies @pawpaws2022. Sky are clearly still blaming Covid which is a load of rubbish after two years. I don't have a problem with someone sending an email, the big issue for me is saying it will take 72 hours to action 'because of Covid'!

O2 obviously don't care what their call centre staff are doing but when I ring to discuss a direct debit I don't expect to give my bank details to someone who is clearly outside!

@QuirkyTurtle

Still have to send emails if I'm sat in the office or not, it literally makes no difference to my job as every minute on my screen is recorded plus audio, plus timed allocated breaks etc etc etc

Wtf where do you work.

Nothing has changed since I worked in a call centre then! I can remember being told off for spending too long in the loo!

Lots of people seem to have a very inflated sense of self, this may be justified, but the vast majority of us are easily replaceable. I'm sure most companies would just tell people to suit themselves if they threaten to leave over the working arrangements. There are plenty of others who will be happy to step into the role.

@DottyHarmer

Things have changed rather too quickly. It must be a nightmare for HR departments, and worse for those with no dedicated HR who have to try to manage the “new normal” and some people’s demands.

Wfh is often fine and dandy, but I’m surprised at some on here thinking it eminently reasonable that looking after their dcs at the same time should be accommodated. They are in fact pushing back the cause of women, by positioning themselves as the caregiver and homemaker as their primary role . If someone can never join meetings at certain times (and depending on industry you may have clients who if they say 3pm you are bloody well there at 3pm and waiting till 4 if they so demand) or there are small children interrupting constantly then no employer is going to be impressed.

Obviously wfh is handy in lots of ways: saves money, you are in for pets, deliveries, kids, workmen etc etc. But ultimately you are being paid to do a job and I think a fair few people (particularly on here) seem to have forgotten that in their glee at being more comfortable.

Agree. An example from yesterday.

I log on at 8am as normal. It's just me and the other childless person in the team. We crack on with the urgent stuff and when we're asked to attend an emergency 9am meeting, we agree between us who goes. From 9.30am or so, the parent colleagues start to show up. They hear about the work arising out of the 9am meeting and say we seem to have it covered. The work is covered by the person attending the 9am meeting in addition to their other daily duties/work.

Another emergency meeting is scheduled for 2.30pm. The parents are all once again absent, and this time I go to the meeting. The parents return around 3.30pm or so and again say we seem to have it covered. They remain logged on but are basically impossible to reach because their children are now home. They all vanish at 5pm saying they'll log back on later. By this point, I've sorted out the work arising out of the emergency 2.30pm meeting, and am now finishing the work that I had to put aside to attend it. I log off at 6pm.

Childless colleague and I log back on at 8am today and nothing has been done overnight, and there's no evidence of anyone logging on after we logged off.

I work in public sector and if the work isn't done then people suffer.

I'm not saying that I never take breaks to get a cup of tea or whatever but this is piss-taking on a different scale. We are all paid the same amount to do the same job. Yet there are people on this thread who consider that this is justifiable because it's womens' rights innit. It's setting women in the workplace back, and it will mean that WFH is withdrawn from all of us in the long run I suspect.

@TheKeatingFive

I won't see my colleagues in the office, like my friend, but may get made to go back in for 2-3 days. What's the logical reason other than 'just because'?

They don't need a reason though. Presumably you agreed a contract which stated your place of work when you took the job.

If you want something different then you need to renegotiate that contract with them or get a new job which meets your requirements.

I know and I will be if they do that. I agreed that contract in a different time when they were adamant work could only be done in an office. We've now proven they are wrong. They have no argument anymore for this, and they'll lose employees due to that. But as I say, that's their problem not mine. I don't particularly care who I work for as long as I get paid.

I agreed that contract in a different time when they were adamant work could only be done in an office. We've now proven they are wrong.

Well their understanding of the situation and your understanding of the situation may not be entirely the same.

However, they are entitled to maintain/adjust terms as they see fit. You are entitled to agree to them or move on. That's all fine. I'm just not particularly sanguine that there are tonnes of entirely wfh jobs out there waiting to be filled, it all seems to point to hybrid. But I guess we'll see.

@Whitefire

Lots of people seem to have a very inflated sense of self, this may be justified, but the vast majority of us are easily replaceable. I'm sure most companies would just tell people to suit themselves if they threaten to leave over the working arrangements. There are plenty of others who will be happy to step into the role.

Maybe. In my case I like to think I just know my worth. This company needs me so much more than I need them. They could sack me, but my combination of skills and knowledge specific to this industry will be near impossible to replace. They know this, I know this, so I'm in a very privileged position to make demands.

This won't be applicable to most people though I'm sure.

Wfh is often fine and dandy, but I’m surprised at some on here thinking it eminently reasonable that looking after their dcs at the same time should be accommodated

It was bound to happen though; with older DCs it can work fine, but with little ones it was only a matter of time until this demand was thrown into the mix, and I'm another who worries about what it may do to womens' work prospects - especially at the lower skills end and/or in small companies

How can the company possibly do everything from home though? Perhaps there are employees who can do work tasks from home but the office base is much more than just a place to complete those tasks. What happens to all the training of new staff? The informal learning they do from shadowing or just working around other colleagues. The raising of standards of colleagues through collaboration, sitting next to others with different ideas and bouncing ideas around. How about parity (particularly for younger/ poorer colleagues) in house shares or unsuitable noisy accommodation who benefit greatly from being part of the office base work force. What about team building and building of soft skills?

I'm not saying that I never take breaks to get a cup of tea or whatever but this is piss-taking on a different scale. We are all paid the same amount to do the same job. Yet there are people on this thread who consider that this is justifiable because it's womens' rights innit. It's setting women in the workplace back, and it will mean that WFH is withdrawn from all of us in the long run I suspect

Where is the management in this? Its their responsibility to ensure flexibility around work doesn't mean work not being done.

What are your disciplinary processes around this and why are they not being used if people are consistently failing to deliver despite accommodations being made?

@FithrightOpinions

Google The Great Resignation.

People are moving/quitting jobs based on whether companies are retaining Hybrid Working & WFH, and employers are scrambling to retain them.

I've been Hybrid Working for the past 6 years, it's the only way to manage a Pan European team - I certainly can't be in the office for all of them!!!

If I was told I had to be in the office "just because" I'd take my skills, experience, knowledge (and probably half of my team) elsewhere to a company that had evolved and could meet my requirements.

Most problems with WFH are caused by Managers who aren't capable of doing their job properly, and who lack the confidence to manage people they can't see.

They're dinosaurs.

Completely agree with this. I've effectively been hybrid working for well over twenty years and my teams are across all timezones.

The actual problems people attribute to WFH are nearly always organisational process or poor management skills. Most of the real problems are pretty easy to work around if your managers actually do their job.