To think LTB is not always financially possible?

[BigupPemberleyMassive]

Especially with so many people struggling on dual incomes, is wanting the kids to be in a dual income, but frosty home unreasonable?

I'm not talking about things like alcoholism or violence, but threads where OP says husband flirted with a co worker by text etc. Obviously not acceptable, but if the choice is separate, move to a smaller more affordable place, an area with bad schools or stay and put up with it but kids have more financial stability?

Median UK salary is £30,000 and often less for women who have taken time out of paid work to have children.

AIBU to think sometimes financial reasons mean one can't LTB?

Or is it better to be struggling financially, and the kids can't do karate anymore or whatever, but you have dignity?

@Marchmount

Agree entirely Idontwanna. All these sneary posts about dignity. The number one predictor of negative outcomes for children is growing up in poverty. Regaining your dignity is a self-indulgence that many women chose not to take if it means that their kids are growing up in vastly more constrained financial circumstances. When you’re childless, it’s fine if you want to sacrifice your financial security for your principles but when you have kids, you should take them into account.

Posters also forget that help,support ,housing and what's available is often a postcode lottery. Add in lack of a support network, lack of skill,academia etc. and it's a fucking potshot. I have mums at my school that struggle to help their kids with their ks1 homework. How would they be able to navigate the benefit system,applications and all that stuff. Not to mention councils/HMRC actively discouraging people from getting what they are entitled to with hoop jumping and shrugging their shoulders saying "there's nothing we can do."

If there was dignity in single parenthood /poverty there wouldn't be so many women doing sex work and plenty of other dangerous things just to make ends meet.

Often they swap one arsehole for a mysoginistic/abusive boss, job or system because they're broke and desperate.Yay women, you're free and have your dignity.

I think it's important to keep the option on the table, share information on what support and help is there, offer support and advice,look at all avenues, make public and accessible charities, grants,schemes etc. That doesn't mean we can sneer and be all judgy and dismissive when a woman decides that staying is better or at least something she can live with. I'm not including abuse, themselves or their children being in danger etc.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I left my ex husband when I had no job. Rented a flat and lived on benefits for a while. I was much happier.

How did you get a flat with no income?

@JanglyBeads she has. The answer is not a fat lot. I really thought that LTB was a genuine option for many until I experienced it close up.

No one who can do anything to improve the situation (ie increase benefits, legal aid provision etc) cares.

@Neveragain85

I stayed for years thinking I couldn't afford life with 2 kids on my own. Turns out I'm much better off financially without him. Wish I'd done it years before. I don't think putting up with any level of abuse is worth the impact to your MH. I am totally scarred from living with an emotional abuser, I don't know if I will ever get over it or get him out of my head. It wasn't worth staying

That’s exactly the case with me too honestly I do appreciate that things might be different now and I understand that you have to jump through more hoops with universal credits but 100% I was financially better off by about £800 a month once he started paying child support versus when we were together .

The number one predictor of negative outcomes for children is growing up in poverty
You mean the number one predictor out of the factors which have been researched properly. There is little large scale research on the effects of growing up witnessing DV, AFAIK.

Many women do not have the money to LTB especially if they don't work or work part time.

But on MN women are often told to LTB even if they have nowhere to go, no money and no support.

It's not without changing your financial position. It is always possible if you need to but life will be tougher. My divorce is costing £550 online plus £99 for the consent order online

@sleaf

Many women do not have the money to LTB especially if they don't work or work part time.

But on MN women are often told to LTB even if they have nowhere to go, no money and no support.

I'm not victim blaming here but too many women put themselves in vulnerable financial positions.

I told DP this is the exactly reason I would never give up work. You don't ever want to plan for the worst situation but if he decided to go and cheat on me or gamble our savings away or shove thousands of pounds of coke up his nose I wouldn't have to just stand idly by.

@Bringsexyback and if he had quit his job or gone on benefits and all you got was £5 a week if that?

It's a real worry for many, especially this year with the ridiculous price increases for everything. Imagine you left tomorrow, as a SAHM or a NMW job and all you had was that and benefits(when they kick in) , if you even got a home and not "temporary accommodation " aka 2/3 years in a b&b or shared house. No family support or real network.

I'm not saying women shouldn't leave, I'm just saying that it's better to try and understand when they don't instead of judging or dismissing their worries. That rhetoric often doesn't work anyways. It just makes them feel even more isolated,disenfranchised and less likely to ask for help.

@JanglyBeads

The number one predictor of negative outcomes for children is growing up in poverty You mean the number one predictor out of the factors which have been researched properly. There is little large scale research on the effects of growing up witnessing DV, AFAIK.

There's plenty of research and evidence of the impact of ACEs on children. Negative effects are not just limited to emotional and mental afflictions ,but physical too.

No one is denying that. Of course,living in poverty makes it more likely for children to be exposed to other traumatic circumstances and environments too. It's a vicious circle.

What is being said is that leaving(especially if there's no abuse) is not always the best option or outcome and many women, even if utterly miserable are painfully aware of that. So maybe some posters could apply a little bit of empathy and sympathy rather than just repeating "where there's a will there's a way" and "there's no such thing as can't " mantra.

@girlmom21 with housing benefit. I claimed benefits.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@girlmom21 with housing benefit. I claimed benefits.[/quote]
I just thought you were lucky to be able to immediately get a flat, that was all.

@girlmom21 I had enough money to pay a deposit and then housing benefit paid the rent. It was a private rental. I was lucky to get it to be fair as getting a private rental when you're on benefits is almost impossible now.

[quote ldontWanna]@Bringsexyback and if he had quit his job or gone on benefits and all you got was £5 a week if that?

It's a real worry for many, especially this year with the ridiculous price increases for everything. Imagine you left tomorrow, as a SAHM or a NMW job and all you had was that and benefits(when they kick in) , if you even got a home and not "temporary accommodation " aka 2/3 years in a b&b or shared house. No family support or real network.

I'm not saying women shouldn't leave, I'm just saying that it's better to try and understand when they don't instead of judging or dismissing their worries. That rhetoric often doesn't work anyways. It just makes them feel even more isolated,disenfranchised and less likely to ask for help.[/quote]
I’m not referring to women I’m minimum wage or on benefits, although to be honest I struggle to see actually how they would be worse off l have friends who have three or four children with man who were a minimum wage and they too were financially better off away from him then with him because at least he wasn’t taken out of the pot - another large mouth to feed, whilst contributing bugger all to it.

It’s a very rare day when a woman goes from being with a man on £50~60 grand a year and he quit his job and cut his nose off to spite his face and goes to earning nothing and therefore she doesn’t get child-support.

And I do realise this is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but it’s another reason why I wouldn’t entertain having a child with somebody who was self-employed.

I agree OP.

I'm a SAHM. Used to have a career, but mental health impact of trying to do it all meant I gave up as 'we' could afford it. Live in South East with DD at private school.
Mental health shot to pieces, partially due to being so miserable with DH. We don't argue and he doesn't see a problem so he won't rock the boat / leave. He's on to a good thing as I'm essestially a maid/gardener/handy man/childcare/cook
Feel dead already, but trapped. No hope of leaving until DD is at uni and I only have myself to support.

I cannot work out what LTB is?!

One thing a lot of people underestimate is the impact it’ll have on kids and the relationships they’ll have in the future when one parent chooses to stay for the financial benefits.

Children often model their own relationships on their parents’ and it makes me sad how many of my peers are absolutely miserable living with a man who repeatedly cheats on them and undermines them and it’s seen as something normal they are forced to endure because their mum stayed for financial reasons too. The same can be said for the numerous men I know mirroring their dads who did as they pleased to no consequences just because they were the breadwinners.

Of course it’s more complex than that and the genders can be reversed but it’s not as common as that scenario up there.

@Bringsexyback

And I do realise this is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but it’s another reason why I wouldn’t entertain having a child with somebody who was self-employed.

I was going to reply with self employed examples, but I see you are aware of that. Same applies for men that work in the "family business" or freelancers or own their company.

The thing is if you trawl through MN threads you'll find plenty of example of men finding and using every single loophole to avoid paying what they should or anything at all and CMS is completely useless at actually chasing and getting money from them unless it's the most straightforward,simple case. From actual financial loopholes, to "having" the kids 50/50 when someone else is actually looking after them , to getting with a woman with 3 kids or having their own, to becoming a "SAHD" because the new wife supports them and so on.

The fact that there are more loopholes than avenues to pursue non payers says a lot about the system and the luck involved.

@figuringoutmylife

I cannot work out what LTB is?!

Leave the bastard

@SheilaWilcox

I agree OP.

I'm a SAHM. Used to have a career, but mental health impact of trying to do it all meant I gave up as 'we' could afford it. Live in South East with DD at private school.
Mental health shot to pieces, partially due to being so miserable with DH. We don't argue and he doesn't see a problem so he won't rock the boat / leave. He's on to a good thing as I'm essestially a maid/gardener/handy man/childcare/cook
Feel dead already, but trapped. No hope of leaving until DD is at uni and I only have myself to support.

Can you not go back to work? If your DD is older then childcare won't be an issue?

@WillTheCircleBeUnbroken

One thing a lot of people underestimate is the impact it’ll have on kids and the relationships they’ll have in the future when one parent chooses to stay for the financial benefits.

Children often model their own relationships on their parents’ and it makes me sad how many of my peers are absolutely miserable living with a man who repeatedly cheats on them and undermines them and it’s seen as something normal they are forced to endure because their mum stayed for financial reasons too. The same can be said for the numerous men I know mirroring their dads who did as they pleased to no consequences just because they were the breadwinners.

Of course it’s more complex than that and the genders can be reversed but it’s not as common as that scenario up there.

I completely agree with this. It makes me sad to see my friends - privately educated, great degrees but have given up their careers, feel they have to put up with abuse - emotional and physical because they don’t want to compromise their and their children’s lifestyle. Seeing their father hit their mother will absolutely affect a child’s view of relationships. I’m fortunate that I had my own career so when my ex husband began abusing me in pregnancy- as it so often starts - finances didn’t hold me back from leaving. Sadly it has meant I only have one child but at least she is being brought up in a happy home .

Please remember it's not just the child's view of relationships which will be harmed, it's their self worth and therefore their mental health.

If they are witnessing physical or emotional violence against their mum they will be terrified, cowed and conflicted. This will come out in present or later years as trauma, depression, anxiety, OCD, panic attacks... I could go on. Unless they get a large course of therapy and ongoing support, which is v difficult to get, even in quite severe cases of DV.

Why are so many people referencing violence and abuse when those are things specifically excluded in the OP?

We aren't talking about those cases, but relationships where the couple are not getting along more generally.

Because as we've discussed "just sending flirty texts to a colleague" - the situation in the OP- has been discussed as often a symptom of much deeper problems. And also because, as discussed, LTB is probably more appropriate to the latter type of situation.