To think LTB is not always financially possible?

[BigupPemberleyMassive]

Especially with so many people struggling on dual incomes, is wanting the kids to be in a dual income, but frosty home unreasonable?

I'm not talking about things like alcoholism or violence, but threads where OP says husband flirted with a co worker by text etc. Obviously not acceptable, but if the choice is separate, move to a smaller more affordable place, an area with bad schools or stay and put up with it but kids have more financial stability?

Median UK salary is £30,000 and often less for women who have taken time out of paid work to have children.

AIBU to think sometimes financial reasons mean one can't LTB?

Or is it better to be struggling financially, and the kids can't do karate anymore or whatever, but you have dignity?

The trick is to get your ducks in a row long before your DP has any idea.
In fact, having been on here far too long, I think everyone should permanently have their ducks in a row.

I left my exP when I was pregnant and had zero money, I was in a shelter for a while and then a council house, and was on benefits for a long time. It's an unpalatable option for some, but for me it would never felt right to let a child live under that kind of situation. For me the dignity of freedom was more important than the indignity of depending on benefits and charity.

I have been very surprised at some of the casual responses in threads on this forum to various wrong doings, so easy to say to leave your partner. Examples recently that are workable and need compromise were a husband refusing to have a booster which meant that they couldnt as a family go to a particular country (various posters saying they would be seriously considering their relationship etc etc), same response to a situation where a husband was going to go on a (presumably) ill fated weekend away with his brother while babysitting his nephews, same types of posters were saying he shouldnt be a yes man to the brother because the wife was ill and therefore 'seriously consider the relationship'. Another thread where the poster's husband has some highly irritating habits, again some responses were about leaving him!

There are cases where there is real abuse and damage and thats one thing, but then there is being a normal human, with flaws, saying the wrong thing sometimes, not getting things right all the time, having characteristics that people find annoying. Its not a reason to end the relationship in my mind unless of course you have decided you've had enough.

My mother didn’t leave my alcoholic step father because he earned a LOT of money, we had a nice home, in a nice area, and she didn’t have to work. It’s important to note he wasn’t abusive - he had/has serious MH issues from an awful childhood (the alcohol issues caused the breakdown of his previous two marriages, though). But he was drunk every day after work, all weekend. My mother was clearly seething with resentment and very miserable, but wouldn’t leave, and it wasn’t a nice atmosphere to grow up in.

If she’d left, she wouldn’t have been able to get a mortgage, it would have been a council house and benefits as she’s never worked a day in her life and has always relied on her husbands for her quality of life.

After subjecting me and my siblings to 15 years of fucking misery, she finally left when their youngest child was 14 (we are a lot older). She got a private rent via a friend. She didn’t get a job, she pissed the 40K from the house sale up the wall on fuck knows what within a year.

I’d much rather she’d have left, been on benefits and skint and give us a HAPPY home.

It’s also the reason why, since the age of 18, I’ve ensured that my lifestyle is funded by me and me alone, and that the presence or absence of a man does not affect me financially.

She’s now on her fourth husband, is in her late 60s, has no pension pot, no savings, no investments, nothing.

I think some people also dont realise that most areas of the UK have a benefit rate for rentals that is less than the rentals in the area,, so there is usually no way that full rent in a private rental can be paid for out of the housing element of UC

In addition a lot of private rentals will not accept people on benefits or you wouldnt pass the credit checks. You cant go for smaller as you cant rent something privately that is overcrowded (or agencies are reluctant I should say)

There is little to no council housing (although some areas do seem to still have stock) and if you are homeless then they will complete a homelessness assessment and should house you while they are doing this but sometimes in temporary accommodation.

These are not necessarily reasons to stay with someone but they are factors which are the reality for some, which many dont realise, its not a question of 'having to put up with a council house', many people in that situation woujld love to have to put up with a council house!

I have a very good friend in this situation now. It is absolutely not an abusive relationship - they simply don't work together anymore as a couple and both are miserable, but they earn so little that their own and their childrens' circumstances would be devastated if they had to try and survive in two separate households. So they plod on, with the best days happening when there's a truce of sorts and no one is actively fed up or angry with anyone else.

Similarly, a friend moved to a very very expensive area (SF Bay area) and said about 40% of the women she met through school were in the same position, yet with much more income - the area was SO expensive that no one could contemplate splitting up as they'd both be so much worse off and likely have to move a long distance away.

I think there’s an amount of money that you can have where you 1. Can’t afford to raise your children alone (eg rent childcare food) and 2. Also don’t qualify for any financial help/benefits.

So I think it can be very very hard to leave.

I might be wrong? Can someone else advise?

In plenty of cases the H walks out when the financial situation is just as bad. But people manage. I actually think in many of the cases on here, people could leave, but they choose not to.

Why do people stop work and rely on their partner? If they do that, why don't they have an escape fund? I really don't understand actually why anyone would stop work - none of us think our relationships are going to fail, but odds are they will do. It's so shortsighted. And so risky. (and dangerous in many cases).

I think that’s why at the end of the day men only end relationships once they have someone else to move on to … yes it’s virtually impossible for many couples to split financially. Very difficult for all, but necessary for many.

@bellac11. Yes indeed- as I said in my previous post, so many of the issues as to why people stay relate to housing. The current situation hugely disadvantages women who tend to be ones contending with stay at home or part time or jobs that fit round families or helping husbands in their business etc . A lot of women would simply fail checks for private rentals as single people or single parents due to the various reasons you mentioned. That’s why it’s vital that social housing is ramped up , not just leave everything up to the private sector. If you are based in midlands or further north You might want to check out rentals and house purchases in the southern half of UK to understand why so many are ‘stuck’ . Take 3 different areas, maybe Chippenham, Guildford and Canterbury. Very little that’s remotely family sized on rental market that’s not designated ‘student’ and way more than double the rents people quote when they say on posts-‘ I’ve got a 3 bed semi with garage for £675’ that they might have if they say they live in Doncaster etc.

It’s naive to think that it’s only women who don’t work or who work part time / not at all who ‘rely’ on men.

I earn £2376 per month, a salary of £41,500. Obviously I’m not an investment banker or whatever but it’s a reasonable amount.

Two lots of nursery fees would leave me with £700 to pay a mortgage, run a car, pay for our groceries, clothes, shoes, household items and the million and one needs of a growing family.

It wouldn’t be particularly easy.

There's a lot of grey areas. It's all very well saying dignity etc. Each situation is contextual. What if a refugee won't accept your 17 year old son? What if your kids are excelling at school? Dignity doesn't pay for food/ gas it's not all added extras. You can't make blanket judgements. My work has exposed me to a myriad of scenarios. And let's not start on universal credit etc. Be mindful finances are tired up with many matters.

I agree op. If you have had time as a sahm or gone part time it's really hard to not feel financially trapped. I think most kids would be happier with parents staying together in the family home as long as no abuse as well sadly. I know that's really controversial but I think it's likely true. Kids aren't bothered if there's a bit of bickering or the dads a bit shit at housework.

100% agree @BigupPemberleyMassive

I agree OP. Reality of life is that a long term relationship is extremely hard to maintain and “love” will not survive in many marriages. As long as spouses can keep relationship civil and as long as staying together benefits everyone, I don’t see the point of searching for a greener grass. It’s easier said than done. Obviously I’m not talking about domestic violence and similar, in this case divorce, no matter the price

@LethargeMarg

I agree op. If you have had time as a sahm or gone part time it's really hard to not feel financially trapped. I think most kids would be happier with parents staying together in the family home as long as no abuse as well sadly. I know that's really controversial but I think it's likely true. Kids aren't bothered if there's a bit of bickering or the dads a bit shit at housework.

It depends whether it is just "a bit of bickering" though, doesn't it?

Or even live in your car with the kids until you got emergency accommodation (I understand single adults without kids or disabilities get no help at all).

Would a parent sleeping in the car with a child not quickly be on the radar of social services?

It is unrealistic to think most women would try this if they are not in any physical danger - their kid would be more at risk sleeping in a car.

As for not being able to afford to leave because it is a LTB situation, I think we as a society need to teach our daughters that this isn’t a position you can let yourself get into.

Society forgets disabled women who can end up stuck in this situation though - and no they haven't 'let' themselves end up in it. Being disabled isn't a choice.

I'm sure there are plenty of mothers of disabled children in situations where the shared finances mean they can pay for extra therapies etc that give their child quality of life, that the NHS don't provide.

Look at how dire child and adolescent mental health provision is - if you have a very mentally unwell teen and you can afford to pay for therapy and a private psychiatrist that will make all the difference.

It's not just 'nice to have' glossy stuff like karate and ballet lessons for a lot of people.

OP yes lots of women can't contemplate leaving, living in a house in a not so nice area, and not having much money. So they put up with all kinds of shit from their partner instead.

@okthx

I agree OP. Reality of life is that a long term relationship is extremely hard to maintain and “love” will not survive in many marriages. As long as spouses can keep relationship civil and as long as staying together benefits everyone, I don’t see the point of searching for a greener grass. It’s easier said than done. Obviously I’m not talking about domestic violence and similar, in this case divorce, no matter the price

God that is such a depressing view of life.

The only reason I'm still with my DP is because I can't afford to leave right now. It's not about choosing between karate classes and my dignity (this is patronising as fuck BTW). It's about choosing between feeding my children and living with someone I'm not in love with anymore.

My partner is not abusive in anyway, our relationship has simply run It's course. We're more like roommates than lovers. If we didn't have children I wouldn't think twice about leaving but as it stands we do, so I'll stay until I can afford to leave.

Side note: I do work/have my own money and I'm working class already living in a crap area. It's not just middle class women who have to stay for financial reasons. This thread really hammers home how deeply out of touch alot of mumsnetters are

@Poptart4 I agree. Not a huge amount of empathy on some posts/a lack of ability to imagine other people’s lives and why it might be hard to leave.

Also I tried to imagine sleeping in my car as suggested by PP with my baby and 4yo. Absolutely no way - not unless our we were in danger of harm or there were no other options. And the obvious other option that almost everyone has is staying in their family home. Surely one of the considerations when leaving is how to minimise the impact on kids?

I think a factor many women in unhappy relationships forget about is that it is not the woman who has all the choices. You may commit to a life of misery to avoid the children experiencing what you see as “financial ruin” totally oblivious to the fact that a man can make that choice for you at any given time just by walking away from the relationship, which is extremely more likely if the relationship is no longer good enough.

People warn women not to leave as “the grass is not always greener” as if leaving a bad marriage was all about finding a better man. It is NOT, it is about standing on your own feet, making your own choices, having control or your finances whatever good or bad they are and above all, ensuring your children do not end up repeating your story by assuming toxic unhappy relationships are normal and ok as long as you are not being battered.

No it's not always financially possible and I cant believe a few posters are saying it is. Are you really that naive?

I did it. DC are disabled so cant work. Mortgage so no help. He stopped all support despite a court order and the courts closed due to covid so no enforcement possible. No family.

I was at the point of losing our home and food banks. It was a living nightmare.

Putting up with the violence was easier tbh.

@Butwhereareyou

It’s naive to think that it’s only women who don’t work or who work part time / not at all who ‘rely’ on men.

I earn £2376 per month, a salary of £41,500. Obviously I’m not an investment banker or whatever but it’s a reasonable amount.

Two lots of nursery fees would leave me with £700 to pay a mortgage, run a car, pay for our groceries, clothes, shoes, household items and the million and one needs of a growing family.

It wouldn’t be particularly easy.

But in theory @Butwhereareyou those nursery fees and other costs relating to the children are half your partners as well. Not just yours.

I agree there are loads of problems with housing in this country. And Child Maintenance is a joke too. Unfortunately I am all too aware how hard it is to leave a partner.