Identity politics in secondary school

[OrchidCarer]

Please be gentle because I’m trying to work out how I feel about this issue.

I have 3 boys at secondary school. A new Head started in September. Since then I’ve noticed the school has increased the amount of teaching time given over to identity politics.

For example:

• Students have special science lessons on LGBTQ+ Scientists. Surely they shouldn’t be recognised for their sexuality but for their achievements? Why is their sexuality even relevant to their job?
• Every subject studies load of ‘Black History’ type subjects – so far my Y9 kid has studied slavery, the slave trade, the Windrush generation this year. This is in history, geography, English. These are presented in a way that makes all black people victims and all white people oppressors. The kids pick up on this and their friendship groups form around race (school is about 30% black, 65% white, 5% other ethnicities).
• Assemblies all the time about how women are downtrodden, oppressed, victims and men are the aggressors, perpetrators. Female dominated classes with a female teacher discussing the patriarchy and similar themes.

I am uncomfortable about all of this division. We are all just human. There is a big difference between educating about past prejudice and forcing stereotypes on kids now.

Concerns

• White straight boys are never in the oppressed group, so are constantly told they are the bad guys. My sons have given up trying to prove everyone wrong – the narrative against them is too strong. My eldest rails at home about the unfairness of it all, how he’s depressed, he can’t do right because he’s a straight white guy, he just wants to go and fight in Ukraine where he’ll be allowed to be a man, doesn’t care if he dies. It’s exhausting to deal with.
• Push towards the far right. If you watch slightly right-wing content, algorithms recommend more. There is a danger that disenchanted boys will turn for comfort to online creators who exploit their anger and encourage sexist, racist and homophobic attitudes.
• Where is the evidence that these interventions make the ‘oppressed’ groups feel supported?
• Women, queer people, and people of colour need allies. We are all on the same side, in the end, and this divisive approach is having the opposite effect to the one intended.

There is a real taboo about saying these things. I raised the LGBTQ+ scientists question and got a dramatically long and patronising lecture in an email back again as though I was the bad guy.

Maybe I am being unreasonable?

Is there anything that I can do or do I just have to watch it all unfold?

@OakRowan blimey that's a bit strong.

However you make a good point about me not actually being there and just listening to his perception of it. I react to his feelings and not to what actually happens. I wonder if I need to go and have a chat about him to the school and find out what they think is going on.

@NobodysGonnaKnow thanks- hope it works out better for you

@MangyInseam I've just watched a couple and bought the book.

I think these things can be done well but they so often miss the entire point.

As a young gay teen i did not fear I could not be a scientist, has anybody ever said gay people can't be scientists? And they often use examples of people who either weren't out, or were persecuted, so it gives the opposite to intended message.

I worried about being out, having a family, being seen as a pervert etc. Useful LGBT role models for me would have been those who were out and proud in whatever they did, made strong political strides etc or just LGBT families being mentioned in a positive and incidental way.

It does no good at all to make people feel guilty for actions that took place before they were born. Nobody should feel they have to atone for sins they didn't commit. Too often the teaching of power systems makes those learning it feel responsible for historical wrongs they had nothing to do with.
Men do have it better in terms of power than women - but a well-heeled girl at a boarding school has ( and will always have) a good deal more power than a white lad with a single mother on benefits going to a poorly run and poorly funded school.
So teaching systems of power to suggest that skin colour or sexual orientation or sex or any other feature is an indicator of personal responsibility is silly; where it gets difficult is that people - and especially teenagers - look for themselves in history. No way your average gay teen is likely to have either the genius or the experience of Alan Turing, but they may well identify with him so closely that they feel they do. It's part of growing up, but it also needs to be grown out of. And here schools have a responsibility to clarify that history is plural and not often about individuals, and to imagine yourself the embodiment of any historical figure is just imagination; just because you are gay and Alan Turing was oppressed doesn't make you oppressed.

I don’t see what’s wrong with teaching black history.

Where people really need to get over the “I’m being made to feel guilty “ nonsense. No one is saying to feel guilty. If you feel guilty then that’s for you to unpack and understand why you feel this way and understand the History behind it.

It implies that black history shouldn’t be taught to protect the feelings of white peoples… which I don’t think you want to adovocate for.

Personally, being white and married to a white man and giving birth to a white son any day now, I’m sure they will be fine and all this hand wringing about the “poor white menz feelings” is ridiculous. They will be just fine. They always have been and will always make sure they are ok before anyone else is. So no need to act like they are all of a sudden oppressed. They would kill is all before they let themselves be anything but on top.

yes the post did smack of : Tell me you are white without telling me you are white.

I'm not sure whether the OP views it as a good or bad thing, but if friendships are dividing on race, that is something to be concerned with.

I'd remove them from this school ASAP.

I’m concerned that the OPs son is obviously depressed is struggling to find his place in the world and is talking about running to a war torn country to seek out death. Something is going wrong and his schooling isn’t addressing or helping that.

Op I honestly think you need to ask for a meeting with pastoral support in his school and see what they can offer. Young men of all colours and social class are at high risk of suicide. Please reach out for help for him.

I'm not sure you're going to get much helpful advice on MN - cultural Marxism is rampant here.

You should get your son into Jordan Peterson. His books and podcasts are very popular with young white men who feel pushed out and disenfranchised - and he's great for helping people find meaning in their lives. Also Chris Williamson's 'Modern Wisdom' podcasts are good. There are lots of people out there trying to counter the idea that white males are inherently bad and less worthy than everyone else.

If they’re teaching using materials from activists and ‘diversity professionals’ no wonder it’s sowing division.
As someone who ticks all ‘oppression’ boxes except for wealth it pisses me off quite frankly.
Also people using opportunities like 99% of people hired via racial quotas are from wealthy families, more privileged than WC white boys with a thick accent.

The narrative of identity politics is reductionist. Thé point is to make people aware, not to make them apologise. Emphasise learning from the lessons of the past, and shared humanity. Most important is BE FAIR TO a EVERYONE, and all of these inequalities are used to illustrate the impact on different groups. The inequalities in themselves are not the point.

But too often ‘educating’ = ‘browbeating into submission’.

Thé privilège élite (thé wealthy) who will do well regardless are happy for this snapping at each other to continue because it benefits them.

@FrippEnos

Iggly These are presented in a way that makes all black people victims and all white people oppressors

Well I’m not sure how else you would present slavery

By teaching that slavery is still going on today
By teaching that white people (men and women) have been and are still taken as slaves.
By teaching that black people sold other black people in to slavery
By teaching that Black people sold slaves to other countries before the white man got there.
By teaching that all creeds and colours have been at some point involved in slavery.

That not all victims of slavery are black.

Together with teaching that about 12 million African slaves were forced into the Atlantic trade between the 16th and 19th century by Europeans and about 1.5 million died on board ship.

Or is that too racially biased for you?

@Lambkin689

I'm not sure you're going to get much helpful advice on MN - cultural Marxism is rampant here.

@Lambkin689 Anyone who uses that term clearly is an ultra far right extremist radical who doesn't know what 'Marxism' actually is, and that there are absolute no actual Marxists on this site.

Most of the ills in the world are the fault of straight white males. Rich ones. Class consciousness should be taught before any identity politics.

@ThatsNotMyGolem

Most of the ills in the world are the fault of straight white males. Rich ones. Class consciousness should be taught before any identity politics.

Do you really believe that? The whole world? Seems a really, really Western-centric view. And a bit patronising too - a bit like "the noble savage" could never be capable of doing wrong if the cunning white man hadn't given him the idea and set a bad example. The world's ills play out in homes and communities everywhere, as well as on the world stage. They always have. Interested to know how you know these wicked white men are all straight too. Again, this seems condescending towards gay men, as if they can only be harmless sidekicks and go around wearing a flashing rainbow badge. As for class consciousness, by all means teach it in your own home, but are you suggesting that this be done in schools?

@MarshmallowSwede

I don’t see what’s wrong with teaching black history.

Where people really need to get over the “I’m being made to feel guilty “ nonsense. No one is saying to feel guilty. If you feel guilty then that’s for you to unpack and understand why you feel this way and understand the History behind it.

It implies that black history shouldn’t be taught to protect the feelings of white peoples… which I don’t think you want to adovocate for.

Personally, being white and married to a white man and giving birth to a white son any day now, I’m sure they will be fine and all this hand wringing about the “poor white menz feelings” is ridiculous. They will be just fine. They always have been and will always make sure they are ok before anyone else is. So no need to act like they are all of a sudden oppressed. They would kill is all before they let themselves be anything but on top.

But they are.

I don't think people realize how personally people take this stuff when they are kids.

But it seems like it should be obvious when you have people on threads like this saying that "these privileged white kids need to be made aware of their privilege." That is about them, personally. Which is why you get these exercises where students are meant to calculate their relative privilege in relation to each other, which can be incredibly diempowering for those kids told they are at the bottom and will struggle to achieve anything.

There are plenty of white people who are not fine, who have all kinds of disadvantages around education, public perception of their class, around education, job prospects, financial and family resources.

One o the really unfortunate things about identity politics is that it very often serves as a hiding place for the actual concrete causes of inequality and disadvantage. Even in the US advantage is now far more complex than race with some non-white groups having far different prospects than others, some the best prospects of anyone.

You really have to ask who it advantages to keep everyone focused on race. This kind of question has been behind some of the unrest there in quite unexpected ways and that will be imported if the underlying thinking is imported.

I'd also point out that teaching black history does not mean teaching identity politics, and people should really question why anyone would assume they are the same.

Why wouldn't there be any actual Marxists on MN? There are quite a lot of people here, and marxists aren't all that rare, I know a couple in real life.

Frankly I'd take an actual marxist over an id pol shill any day. Cultural marxism might not be the most accurate term, but there certainly are lots of people here who take that viewpoint whatever they call themselves. I refuse to call them ant-racists given that I think they are pretty much race essentialists.

Herewearestar

Or is that too racially biased for you?

I would like to see the whole of slavery taught. Showing the parts that all people played in it. Why that makes me "racially biased" is something of a mystery.

It's Black history month and LGBTQ awareness month so not surprising there are topics and assemblies reflecting this.

Yes but who has come up with these Months, and what obligation is the school under to observe them? I'm thinking in particular of LGBTQ History Month, which seems to have sprouted up recently in addition to "Pride Month" (formerly known as June).

I'm not saying they must never be mentioned at all, but it sounds like some schools have gone into overkill.

I thought UK Black History Month was October ?

Fed up of black history being all doom and gloom
And slavery.

There’s so much fantastic black history which should be the focus