Is it DH or me? (money matters)

[Alwaysforgiving]

My DH and I have been together for 5 years. Over all this time there had been a real lack of transparency of what happens with his salary/money. He has children from a previous marriage. Throughout all of this year's, I've been the one paying most of the household bills. The percentage has varied through the years, but the best we ever got was about 60/40. I've always put all of my salary and my trust money in the joint account (big mistake) and he's always put in whatever he's been able to at the time. Also through the years, I've covered big expenses. I bought him a car (with my savings) and thanks to my savings and my family's help we've been able to get our mortgage for our first house and then for our current home. In the past, he's misused my credit card, and has lied about his personal finance situation (mainly being out of his overdraft). Over all of these years I've always wondered what does he actually does to his money and raised my concerns every now and then and things have improved but never to the full transparency that I would want. So we've reached a breaking point and I've told him the household would pay for his debts but he most close his current account, but he didn't want to close said account. I took his feedback and then suggested the household would pay for his overdraft, he keeps his joint account, we start getting paper statements (for transparency) and his salary gets paid to the joint account. I think considering everything I've done, and his constant lying for a year he still got a decent deal. To which he said that he didn't want that to happen because he wanted to pay CM from his account (as matter of dignity) and he'd transfer the rest. I said that didn't give me the transparency I wanted and I still had to rely on him transferring his salary. Then I lost it as I couldn't comprehend how he had the pizzazz to "voice his opinion" in a matter that quite frankly I've had enough. Thanks for reading!

Like others have said there are so many red flags here. Also why on earth didn’t you ring fence your/your family’s financial contribution in the house!!! Huge mistake.
STOP FINANCING HIM! He is an adult with clearly a lot to hide from you as this isn’t at all normal in a marriage.

I couldn’t live like this
He’s taking you for an idiot and you were very naive to not protect the funds your family put in. He will take his half-but I’d split now before it gets worse and you’re into sunk costs fallacy

Either he has something to hide- eg he is in a significant amount of (hidden) debt, not paying the child maintenance you think he is, or he is taking you for ride.

The lack of transparency would be a huge worry for me. We have always paid a % of salary into a join account to cover shares outgoings. The remainder is one's own money, but equally we try and pay the same % towards say a holiday or a car. So we rely on each other to be sensible with the money left. The point being it's an agreed, mutual approach to our budget.

Money can only work in a relationship if it is a. Fair and b. Transparent.

I am not sure you have either. You have tried and he will not bend. For me, the relationship would be over. I would otherwise consider it financial abuse.

Is he paying child maintenance in full though? Have you seen statements? It sounds like hes hiding something.

Open mouthed that you’ve put yourself in this position, and for that reason I voted YABU.
You pay significantly more day to day and on large items, yet don’t even know what he has?
I’d go to see a solicitor and get that transparency via divorce full disclose.
Yeah, you’ll lose some of the house - but it’s your family’s money not yours I suppose, so you all share the burden you all sleep walked into.
And when considered the cost of getting rid of this arsehole - it’s worth it.
This isn’t fixable. You don’t need paper statements, you need a divorce.

He definitely pays his CM in full. When we bought our first house I did audit his accounts and nothing was out of the ordinary, for the most part he didn't earn enough to cover his expenses (including commute and debt). We do have a 2yo, and we've been married for 10 months.

Besides this lack of transparency with money (that has bothered continuously but I would only bring up now and then) he's a great father and husband. I think i started to have enough when I got made redundant and even then he wouldn't come and say "here's all my salary" or whatever, I actually had to get annoyed with him to reach the point we're at now, where in theory he pays in his full salary (that I'm.not.sure because I have no will/time/energy to look at his bank statements).

I suppose on balance at this point in time YABU because you tolerate the situation.
Clearly he's happy with the status quo

The issue isn't lack of transparency

The issue is he doesn't pay the bills!

There's no need to overthink arrangements but he must pay his share.

@Alwaysforgiving

He definitely pays his CM in full. When we bought our first house I did audit his accounts and nothing was out of the ordinary, for the most part he didn't earn enough to cover his expenses (including commute and debt). We do have a 2yo, and we've been married for 10 months.

If you knew this, then you knew you'd be subbing him?

You don’t trust him, with good reason. Surely trust is important in any relationship.

Oh yes, I know I'd always be subsidising him (which is fine). If anything I've always wanted him to be financially independent and have his own savings. It's the lack of transparency and unwillingness to be transparent over the years that really gets me.

YANBU, that would be a total deal breaker for me. My DH has children from previous marriage too, but all our finances are open and transparent and we work as a team for the good of the whole. Your DH isn’t doing that - he’s only working for himself here. You’ve been more than reasonable. I couldn’t stay with someone like that.

Do you know what he earns and how does it compare with what you earn?

Have you seen his credit file? Seeing as he can't be trusted, perhaps you should agree that he signs up to something like Credit Karma and then he can show you his credit file periodically, just to check there's nothing unexpected on there.

Should you (as a couple) have sufficient income to cover all expenses, including saving for annual and irregular expenses like insurance, car maintenance and replacement, holidays etc etc plus leaving some money left over for personal spending money?

What does he appear to spend money on? Does he have expensive hobbies? Is he always buying coffees, lunches, takeaways etc? Clothes, tech, cars, etc etc?

Or worse than that, gambling, OW etc?

You need to give him an ultimatum, because otherwise, he'll just go along for years spending all his money on his personal desires and credit card/overdraft interest and you'll just be throwing all your money into the black hole that this creates.

Either he hands over complete control to you and his salary goes into the joint account that he doesn't have access to, but the CM that he needs to pay, and his share of the available personal spending money goes back to him, in an account without an overdraft facility, or you split.

Yes, it's controlling, and yes, it's treating him like a child, but what is the alternative, if he's such a financial disaster that he's just constantly dragging you down like this??

5 years? why are you still there?

@Alwaysforgiving whilst I'm 100% in your camp on this not being acceptable I think you need to think about where your boundaries and deal breakers are.

Youve said you knew you'd always be subsidising him and you're fine with that, that you knew he couldn't afford basic living costs (commute, paying debts)
You and your family have provided the house and car.

He really brings nothing to the table financially and you basically have another dependent. I wouldn't be ok with that. That's my boundary.

So I guess what I'm saying is if you know he's not hiding anything and that hes useless with money and not really paying a fair share, what are you hoping to change? Where is your boundary? Fully appreciate you have a child together but in all relationships we have a hard boundary, whether that's cheating being crap with money, rubbish father, whatever, we all set boundaries and know our dealbreakrs. So what is your and what so you want to achieve here and what if he doesnt meet that expectation?

But to answer your title question, how on earth could you think that you're being unreasonable and his behaviour as a husband and father is completely acceptable?

Do you know what he earns and how does it compare with what you earn?

I don't know exactly, but it's not secret either (I've just enver paid attention to not have to think about it). But grossly I make £75k Vs 25-26k (that includes my trust btw).

Have you seen his credit file? Yes, I actually created accounts in 2 out of the 3 main ones. So I can see everything albeit not in real-time. Because he knew this is that he finally came clean. He has a loan and an overdraft. I completely understand why he got the loan, but I'm puzzled at times why he could never get out of the overdraft considering we/he paid it off.

Should you (as a couple) have sufficient income to cover all expenses, including saving for annual and irregular expenses like insurance, car maintenance and replacement, holidays etc etc plus leaving some money left over for personal spending money?

We each get £80 a months but that's literally do whatever we want with it. As it stands, it would only be enough to cover his debts, but not to buy each other presents (which has been part of the argument about keeping a separate account).

What does he appear to spend money on? Does he have expensive hobbies? Is he always buying coffees, lunches, takeaways etc? Clothes, tech, cars, etc etc?

No idea! But coffees were a big culprit at some point. As I've said, when I've audited his accounts there's nothing out of the ordinary.

Or worse than that, gambling, OW etc? Don't think so.

Yes, it's controlling, and yes, it's treating him like a child, but what is the alternative, if he's such a financial disaster that he's just constantly dragging you down like this??
The amounts are fairly small but I just feel.like I've had enough and have no other alternative.

It's a grey area. He's not fully dependent but not fully independent either. I do think he'd struggle on his own, or maybe not but definitely wouldn't have a surplus.

I think my red line/breaking point here was his lack of humility and even gratitude. For him to voice that he wanted to keep his current account so "he could feel he contributes financially to his other DC" was the most ungrateful and self-centred thing I've heard him say. It took no consideration of how I've (or could have been) feeling.

Why did you get married only 10 months ago he has no money what money he has he’s terrible with and not honest what was in it for you ? Why didn’t you ring fence your families deposit it’s only going to get worse if he doesn’t step up and why shd he you’re bankrolling everything

You need to spell it out as " if I can't pay the bills for any reason and you're not paying them either, eventually we will be homeless. Is that what you want?"

To be honest, £80 pm spending money when you have a £100k household income isn't very much, is that really all you can afford? Are your basic expenses very high?

It's early days with that income, but so far we thought it was a fairly decent amount. It's literally to buy each other presents or if I want to buy something that wouldn't be covered by our day to day money... Not the best example but something like wanting to buy a Ted Baker coat (which would come from the joint pots) Vs wanting to "upgrade" to a Burberry trenchcoat.

Our joint pots cover 99% of all possible expenses.

Why on god’s name did you marry this man?!!!! 🤯

My husband and I have a similar income differential, a bit larger - I’m the higher earner too (although I actively have to earn all my money - perhaps you’re just more willing to piss it away on losers when it’s coming from a trust fund? 🤨).

I can tell you now - my vagina would slam shut if I had to check my husband’s accounts like a child! How can you have respect and love for him?!