Men should have the right to not want a baby

[user57639206]

NC as I've been shot down a few times in real life for having this opinion.

I find it bizarre that women can decide that they don't want a baby and opt for a termination (just to clarify, I completely agree with this. It's her right to choice) but when a man decides now isn't the right time, right partner or whatever the reason - he's labelled a arsehole, good for nothing or irresponsible.

Surely if a woman has the right to say "no, not right now/not for me" a man should have the same right? Without being labelled or judged!

I've seen it a few times in real life, be it from a one night stand or a not so serious relationship. The woman wants to keep the baby, the man says he doesn't (but doesn't suggest an abortion), and he's thrown under the bus.

I know there is a big difference in some sense because obviously, the woman goes through all the physical changes/trauma of having a baby - but when are men then taken to court for CA or have knives shoved in their backs for not wanting a baby?

AIBU?

@Brefugee

I agree with you OP. A friend of mine made it v v clear that he didn't want a child and was told that she was on the pill. He even offered to used a condom on top of that but she insisted no. She wasn't on the pill but was desperate for a baby. He was devastated. She totally took advantage of him. How is that even remotely fair??

my heart, as we used to say in the army, pumps purple piss. Tough. He KNEW he didn't want a baby and yet he left all the responsibility on her. If you don't want a baby, mate, the least - the VERY LEAST - you need to be doing is wear a condom. That you bought yourself and made sure was still in date. It is hardly rocket science.

He still had a choice. Knowing he REALLY didn’t want to have a child, he could have insisted on a condom and said ‘No condom no sex’

The fact she wasn’t in the pill is for me closer to a man removing a condom during sex. Basically there was a lack of consent of that particular sexual act.

But it doesn’t absolve him from being a father. No more than a woman would still be a mother if the guy had removed his condom.

Wow! Can’t believe I’m actually reading this.

Would love to know exactly how the op is suggesting a woman be forced keep/terminate the baby against her will???

"Travellingfrom: - both partners can take steps to avoid a pregnancy. If either of them do not want a child, it’s in their own shoulders to ensure this doesn’t happen. This means the pill for a woman, a condom for man. No sex, vasectomy, tube ligature etc…. This should NOT be left to one partner to take on the whole of the responsibility.
So when a man has sex and hasn’t been using a condom (or even when he takes the decision to actually have sex), he is also making a choice. The choice of a potential pregnancy - even if the risk is very low.
It’s at this point that a man is taking the decision to be a (potential) father or not. Not later on.

• then AFTERWARDS the decision of keeping the pregnancy is very much in the hands of the woman.

That decision is about the mother and in particular or her health, physical and emotional. She is also the one who is bearing the potential consequence of an abortion if she decides to go down that route.

But an abortion is not a method of contraception. That’s why deciding to keep the baby or not cannot be associated with a man’s involvement/responsibility in raising the child. That’s choice was made when he has sex."

I love how it is assumed that using condoms is solely the choice of the man. If a woman uses a contraceptive it has no impact on the enjoyment of sex for the man, but if a man wants to use a condom that also impacts the woman and so she feels that she also has a say in whether they do or not.

@TheWeeDonkey I don't really understand how you can be angry with someone for not wanting to become a parent, honestly. It happens every single day. We all know that people don't have sex exclusively to make babies, and it doesn't seem entirely logical that only one of the parents has the right to opt in or out, while the other had no choice at all in the matter.

@Ori18

Lol at the black & white “we’ll if he doesn’t want a baby he can abstain from sex” comments. Like, WTF? Would this same advice apply so brutally to women, or would they be encouraged to make an informed choice about their contraceptive options???!!

There is such a thing as contraceptive failure. But only one of the couple ends up pregnant because of it. And they are the ones who have to deal with it, one way or the other. I'm quite sure that if men were the ones who got upduffed, they would be far less lackadaisical in their approach.

I do wonder why more men don't chose to have a vasectomy though, if they are sure they don't want children.

That’s a good question.
I wanted another child. DH didnt. He also didn’t like condom so didnt want to use them. And he wanted sex.
Cue for about 9 months before he had a vasectomy where he played the Russian roulette.

I still have no idea why….

What solve an issue rather than just be a victim about it? Where’s the fun in that.

@RobinRedbreasts and he can say that it’s either condom or no sex.

He has a choice.
If the woman doesn’t like that, she has a choice, suck it up or not have sex. She doesn’t have a say in the contraception a man wants to use. I’m not sure why you think differently.

[quote LittleGwyneth]@TheWeeDonkey I don't really understand how you can be angry with someone for not wanting to become a parent, honestly. It happens every single day. We all know that people don't have sex exclusively to make babies, and it doesn't seem entirely logical that only one of the parents has the right to opt in or out, while the other had no choice at all in the matter.[/quote]
Logical is exactly what it is. The baby only affects one person’s body. That’s why they get to choose. It’s literally the most basic logic.

@Brefugee

I agree with you OP. A friend of mine made it v v clear that he didn't want a child and was told that she was on the pill. He even offered to used a condom on top of that but she insisted no. She wasn't on the pill but was desperate for a baby. He was devastated. She totally took advantage of him. How is that even remotely fair??

my heart, as we used to say in the army, pumps purple piss. Tough. He KNEW he didn't want a baby and yet he left all the responsibility on her. If you don't want a baby, mate, the least - the VERY LEAST - you need to be doing is wear a condom. That you bought yourself and made sure was still in date. It is hardly rocket science.

And SHE knew exactly what she was doing. It's a disgusting way to bring a child into the world. Honestly how anyone, man or woman, can think this is ok is absolutely beyond me. But then most of the responses on MN are so whatever!! lol

Then he should tak all's reps to not impregnate a woman. Contraception or celebacy. That's his choice.

@LittleGwyneth. People who don't want to be parents have plenty of options to not be parents. It seems like the options available to men seem like to much like hard work for men who want all the fun with no responsibility. Why are you pandering to that?

when men walk away from their children there are consequences, even if it isn't the man who has to face them. That is the reality why do you deny it?

I haven't read the full thread but I'm pretty sure you've been crushed op. Woman gets pregnant = feeling like shit, puking up every meal for 3 months +, pains everywhere, life changing body alterations from preg and labour, guilt and pain from miscarriage or abortion, probable career interruption or destroyed career, gender pay gap increases considerably after child bearing age for women because their jobs are often not flexible for promotions and client meets which often give male colleagues the lift up the career ladder. They are usually the predominant care giver and end up taking on the mental load of running everyone's lives in their house, judgement for what ever you do as a mother, a sucker punch to the wallet and life savings. And maybe death. A man gets a woman pregnant and experiences no physical effect, a lift up the career ladder now he's a family man, the ability to just go out with the boys, a live in carer, a sucker punch to the wallet.
Yes, it must be hard if their partner chooses to keep a pregnancy if they don't want a child or vice versa but in no way is their experience remotely as damaging as it is to a woman to go through that.
A woman forced to have a baby against her will will rarely walk away from that child. A man can walk away with relatively little judgement.
A woman forced to have an abortion will live with the anger, guilt and regret for life, and will always be concerned about the effect on fertility. She also suffers phsyical pain. A man who is forced to have loss through abortion will be upset and angry. There are no physical repercussions.
IT IS NOT THE SAME. Yabu majorly.

Op is defo a man

YANBU OP, but the outcome of the thread was predictable. All the discussion is about child rights and bodily autonomy.

In society we do allow parents to give up both the rights and responsibilities to children - adoption. As far as I'm aware if a child is given up for adoption or taken into care, the biological parents are no longer responsible.

If this is the case, the only question I have is why if this is acceptable, why is it not acceptable for either parent to chose to do the same, and the other parent essentially to adopt as a right.

I realise its not the same as not having a child, but I suspect in many cases people mean they don't want to have the lifestyle impacts of having a child - but this is already accepted in society to be valid by adoption.

Yabu.

A child has a set of rights independent of their parents and the main one is to be provided for by the people who created them.

Once a child is in this world they are a person in their own right and the parents have obligations.

It's a small and inconvenient fact that people who think men shouldn't be forced to give money to women who choose not to have an abortion on demand like to ignore.

@theweedonkey what are the options for men who don't want to be parents? As I understand it, if you get someone pregnant you are obliged to pay maintenance?

I think a person of either sex should have the right to opt out of being a parent, whether that's via adoption, abortion or leaving the other parent to do it solo. My only expectation would be that they were honest from the outset and consistent, no coming in and out of a child's life.

@justustwoandmoo, tbh I agree this is not an ok way to have a child. I don’t think anyone on this thread said it was.

The man is still the father though.
He still had a choice - wear a condom, not have sex.
Despite of the shitty way the baby was conceived (which I personally would put along the lines of sexual assault - the same way than when a man removes his condom during sex)

How? My dad walked away from us (and his marriage) as he realised he didnt want to be a dad when I was 2 and sibling was 4 and never paid a penny to either my mam or helped us children in anyway, I've not seen him since I was 2....does that mean I'm undeserving? On the contrary, I had a lovely childhood with my mam and nana filled with love.

[quote TravellingFrom]@RobinRedbreasts and he can say that it’s either condom or no sex.

He has a choice.
If the woman doesn’t like that, she has a choice, suck it up or not have sex. She doesn’t have a say in the contraception a man wants to use. I’m not sure why you think differently.[/quote]
He could, indeed... but the emotional blackmail would wear him down eventually.

Absolutely ridiculous post.

Everyone involved in sexual intercourse should be aware that sex could always result in a baby.

If a woman gets pregnant, that's on both people. However, it is ultimately the woman's choice as to whether to continue the pregnancy or not - her body, her choice. If she wants the baby and the man doesn't, that's difficult for both people but if he didn't want a baby, he had every opportunity to, you know, not have sex.

Once a baby is here, that baby is a person with rights. Rights to know both parents. And the man has a responsibility to that baby, whether or not he would have chosen for it to be born. So, no. The man doesn't just get to walk away.

That you can honestly compare a man walking away from his responsibilities to a human being he co-created with a woman choosing to have an abortion shows a real lack of understanding of the issues at hand and a real lack of ability to see a baby as an individual person with rights of their own.

[quote LittleGwyneth]@theweedonkey what are the options for men who don't want to be parents? As I understand it, if you get someone pregnant you are obliged to pay maintenance?

I think a person of either sex should have the right to opt out of being a parent, whether that's via adoption, abortion or leaving the other parent to do it solo. My only expectation would be that they were honest from the outset and consistent, no coming in and out of a child's life.[/quote]
Who pays for the kid?

[quote LittleGwyneth]@theweedonkey what are the options for men who don't want to be parents? As I understand it, if you get someone pregnant you are obliged to pay maintenance?

I think a person of either sex should have the right to opt out of being a parent, whether that's via adoption, abortion or leaving the other parent to do it solo. My only expectation would be that they were honest from the outset and consistent, no coming in and out of a child's life.[/quote]
What options, @LittleGwyneth?

Vasectomy.
Abstinence.
Condoms.

@Turkey98

YANBU OP, but the outcome of the thread was predictable. All the discussion is about child rights and bodily autonomy.

In society we do allow parents to give up both the rights and responsibilities to children - adoption. As far as I'm aware if a child is given up for adoption or taken into care, the biological parents are no longer responsible.

If this is the case, the only question I have is why if this is acceptable, why is it not acceptable for either parent to chose to do the same, and the other parent essentially to adopt as a right.

I realise its not the same as not having a child, but I suspect in many cases people mean they don't want to have the lifestyle impacts of having a child - but this is already accepted in society to be valid by adoption.

That’s an interesting take…

Is it ok to have a child giving up ‘for adoption’ only by one parent rather than two?….

Could you do that at any point in the child’s life or only at birth?
Is that in the best interest if the child (now considered a person as they have even born)?

[quote TravellingFrom]@justustwoandmoo, tbh I agree this is not an ok way to have a child. I don’t think anyone on this thread said it was.

The man is still the father though.
He still had a choice - wear a condom, not have sex.
Despite of the shitty way the baby was conceived (which I personally would put along the lines of sexual assault - the same way than when a man removes his condom during sex)[/quote]
You make some good points. Thanks for putting it in a far more constructive and less sarcastic way the the other responses 😂😂.