Could EUPD come under the neuro diverse umbrella?

[UndertheCedartree]

I have been to a neuro diversity conference today. One thing that came up was that Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (BPD) should be categorised as a neuro developmental disorder like Autism. I found this so interesting as I've often thought the same. There is so much cross over between EUPD and other disorders like ASD and ADHD, for example many of the differences in the brain are the same, impulsiveness and black and white thinking can happen in EUPD and ADHD/Autism.

I would love to hear from anyone who has experience of these disorders what you think?

@AfraidToRun

I had DBT (for a different diagnosis) it completely changed my life but whenever I tell a Dr that I can see their brains jump to BPD and the tone of the conversation changes.

I have been diagnosed with the new name for Hysteria (did not appreciate them putting that in the letter!). It's mostly trauma based as I believe most of the disorders in the ICD are. Trauma is not just PTSD. I have a trauma based disorder but not EUPD, PTSD or CPTSD.

I've seen mental health included under neurodiversity before not sure how accurate it is and who decides what belongs. We probably need a new category and a greater understanding that the mind and brain can't be separated.

I guess there's a fear that calling a MH condition neurodiverse that it might discourage people from treatment where it exists.

I get the idea some people on here don't want the crazies encroaching on their turf! Little do they know some of us are already there!

There are lots of personality disorders but most people don't really know much about them. They do need an overhaul. I think you are right. And a good point about treatment. But I do think EUPD could be ND+trauma or something like that. So more than just ND!

@bunfighters

It's incredibly hard to unpick neurodiversity and the damage done by the trauma of not having your needs met, especially in women who are very probably underdiagnosed with ASCs. I see this in my work daily.

That makes a lot of sense.

Op are you formally diagnosed as autistic or self diagnosed as autistic?

I disagree that EUPD is a developmental disorder. It is a trauma informed response and like many others have said c-PTSD is a far more fitting diagnosis without the attached stigma. This seems to be current thinking among the psychology and psychiatry communities. An persistently invalidating environment would create trauma in a young mind, nothing in its description suggests it is anything other than a traumatic experience. Repeating that phrase over and over as if it is somehow separate from trauma isn’t helping your argument in the way you think it is.

I’ve come across so many women saying they’re autistic when they are quite clearly not because they feel (fuck knows why) that the label is less stigmatised than a PD. I appreciate that many women are misdiagnosed throughout their lives but I also know women who cling onto the hope i”it’s just autism” and pay thousands time and time again until they find someone willing to give them the diagnosis they want. That doesn’t help autistic people and it doesn’t help people with PDs either.

@rogueone

DBT isnt being used for those with asd so that is a lie...so perhaps base your comments in truth and evidence

UndertheCedartree sorry which specialist are you referring to

No it's not a lie and others have said it too. I'll see if I can find something on it. Please show me the truth and evidence it has never been used for ASD! Why would I lie? Do you even know anything about ASD or are you just here to throw round accusations? Why would others like about it too? I'm refering to a specialist in EUPD. What is your qualification?

@GCAutist

Op are you formally diagnosed as autistic or self diagnosed as autistic?

I disagree that EUPD is a developmental disorder. It is a trauma informed response and like many others have said c-PTSD is a far more fitting diagnosis without the attached stigma. This seems to be current thinking among the psychology and psychiatry communities. An persistently invalidating environment would create trauma in a young mind, nothing in its description suggests it is anything other than a traumatic experience. Repeating that phrase over and over as if it is somehow separate from trauma isn’t helping your argument in the way you think it is.

I’ve come across so many women saying they’re autistic when they are quite clearly not because they feel (fuck knows why) that the label is less stigmatised than a PD. I appreciate that many women are misdiagnosed throughout their lives but I also know women who cling onto the hope i”it’s just autism” and pay thousands time and time again until they find someone willing to give them the diagnosis they want. That doesn’t help autistic people and it doesn’t help people with PDs either.

Formally.

And I disagree about cPTSD being current thinking. Certainly not among the PD specialists I know. Not saying it isn't believed by some of course.

No need to be snarky. Yes I might repeat it as it is what I believe. Sometimes autistic people do that, sorry.

@rogueone - can you explain why DBT would not help some autistic people?

@GCAutist - EUPD is more stigmatised than autism. Surprised you don't know that. Are you a psychiatrist?

Well given i have supported people with an ASD diagnosis since 2015 who originally fell under the transforming care cohort which was a national programme following winterbourne view. There is an extra level of scrutiny for everyone in hospital. So after 7yrs of individual reviews I would consider myself an expert...and DBT has never been used for anyone with an ASD diagnosis whether they be in the community or in hospital....and i mean never....it has only ever been recommended when a clinical team decide and autistic female has EUPD which is usually when someone is admitted to a mainstream mental health service without the expertise of autism..this is always challenged as someone who is an autistic person needs to be understood and any behaviours that challenge can be understood via a functional behavioural assessment and support via a PBS

@IJoinedJustForThisThread

I have been diagnosed with EUPD and in the last couple of months four different people have asked me if I’ve been assessed for autism.

Is that because of traits they've seen in you? There is a lot of crossover and you can have both!

@rogueone

Well given i have supported people with an ASD diagnosis since 2015 who originally fell under the transforming care cohort which was a national programme following winterbourne view. There is an extra level of scrutiny for everyone in hospital. So after 7yrs of individual reviews I would consider myself an expert...and DBT has never been used for anyone with an ASD diagnosis whether they be in the community or in hospital....and i mean never....it has only ever been recommended when a clinical team decide and autistic female has EUPD which is usually when someone is admitted to a mainstream mental health service without the expertise of autism..this is always challenged as someone who is an autistic person needs to be understood and any behaviours that challenge can be understood via a functional behavioural assessment and support via a PBS

Ah, I see. Well, I'm afraid you're extremely uniformed. 7 years really doesn't make you an expert, I'm afraid. Why do you think autistic people would lie about DBT? Why would more than one person lie about it on this thread? I've met people like you before who 'support' us and think you know it all. You'll never really understand what it is like to be autistic, unfortunately. Especially when you don't actually listen to autistic people.

Can you explain why DBT is not useful considering you're an 'expert'? I'll tell my autistic son that the 'expert' says he is wrong about DBT helping him.

Great. I'm not disordered either.
Then why do you use ASD rather than ASC?

@rogueone

Do you know what FBA is?

bizarre thread with folks that think their experts based on a bit of reading. I work in a national programme for those affected who end up in hospital with an ASD and or LD diagnosis...so i do know what i am talking about as I deal with the experts and review their care and treatment...i also know about DBT as it is something that was the focus with those with a diagnosis of PD ... and the old DSPD services now offer this to females witha PD diagnosis

Haha...experts based on a bit of reading! I think you need to do a bit more reading, you're so outdated. Remind me when is your book coming out?

I disagree with you and as someone who has autistic people who work alongside me i think your talking rubbish. I work alongside national experts...i work with those who have been severly impacted by their diagnosis and when your dealing with the trauma of someone who has been in hospital since they were 10 and are now in their 20s i understand what is needed to change there experience. So please dont bleat on about DBT which is something used for people with EUPD/PD

@gilead as it is widely understood i.e I use it for clear communication and myself and others don't have a problem with it. There isn't one universally agreed approach with that or with person first language either.

@rogueone

I disagree with you and as someone who has autistic people who work alongside me i think your talking rubbish. I work alongside national experts...i work with those who have been severly impacted by their diagnosis and when your dealing with the trauma of someone who has been in hospital since they were 10 and are now in their 20s i understand what is needed to change there experience. So please dont bleat on about DBT which is something used for people with EUPD/PD

I feel sorry for the people you work with, I really do. You are so narrow minded you can't consider something might help them? Shame on you. You think you know more about autistic people's lived experience than they do themselves? Shame on you. What exactly is your role? Expert in everything to do with autism after 7 years? No really, what is it? You still can't answer the question. What is it about DBT that makes it unsuitable for ASD? Do people with Autism have issues with interpersonal relationships for example?

@rogueone - could you maybe tell us what DBT has been used for? I take it you know it is for more than EUPD?

Most of us do tend to prefer ASC. It is now equally understood. I have been offering it with dx for over ten years.
I fully accept that you have a differing point of view but will always jump in and offer ASC when someone uses ASD.

I am not going to explain myself to you however .i have worked tirelessly to support people to leave institutions after many years. Not one area of support was to offer DBT...what was offered was a team around people to support them in the community in their own home, I have intervened when parents have called me in panic that their adult DC with autism was being assessed for a section under the mHA and i had to intervene and source an alternative. I do alot of important work to support families and I will say again DBT has never been an intervention with those with ASD...so you may think I am narrow minded but i have made a huge impact with those i work with

@rogueone www.hopetherapyandwellness.com/blog/123759-dialectic-behavioral-therapy-dbt-for-people-with-autism

Just a quick Google and an article on DBT for autism. I'm not going to search for anything more specific as you've been so rude. Maybe start actually spend some time on CPD so you don't get caught falsely accusing autistic people of lying about autism because you know what - we are the experts on our own condition. Do better.

I think you may have a classic case of being rude, OP.

I'm not going to search for anything more specific as you've been so rude.

Projection.

@Gilead

Most of us do tend to prefer ASC. It is now equally understood. I have been offering it with dx for over ten years. I fully accept that you have a differing point of view but will always jump in and offer ASC when someone uses ASD.

Thanks I haven't found it understood atall! So I think by habit I say ASD. And because I say it so often it doesn't really mean much. Personally, I prefer to say I'm autistic.

I dont deal with blogs, i work with the RCPsych and the NHSE national leads so will be guided by them...i have a very positive track record and support many individuals so crack on with your EUPD agenda

@milkyaqua

I think you may have a classic case of being rude, OP.

She accused me of being a liar. How is that not rude?