Could EUPD come under the neuro diverse umbrella?

[UndertheCedartree]

I have been to a neuro diversity conference today. One thing that came up was that Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (BPD) should be categorised as a neuro developmental disorder like Autism. I found this so interesting as I've often thought the same. There is so much cross over between EUPD and other disorders like ASD and ADHD, for example many of the differences in the brain are the same, impulsiveness and black and white thinking can happen in EUPD and ADHD/Autism.

I would love to hear from anyone who has experience of these disorders what you think?

I have been diagnosed with EUPD and in the last couple of months four different people have asked me if I’ve been assessed for autism.

@xxxsuper

I think DBT would help those with ASD

I have never heard of DBT, what is it and how will it help me?

DBT is based around learning skills in 4 areas Mindfulness, Distress Tolerance, Emotion Regulation and Interpersonal Effectiveness. You spend time learning these skills, practicing them, 1:1 sessions to explore more in depth with a psychologist how the skills can be used with your particular symptoms/issues. Some find learning about the skills at home can help too (i.e without the need for formal therapy). To give some examples there is a skill under Distress Tolerance called 'self soothe' where you learn ways to soothe yourself so you can calm down from something that distressed you.

It also mirrors the arguments about the difference between attachment disorders and ASDs in children.

@BachAndByte

I think DBT would help those with ASD lots

I don’t. Too close to ABA for comfort.

What?! It's nothing like ABA!

@BachAndByte

I think DBT would help those with ASD lots

I don’t. Too close to ABA for comfort.

It has helped us! In what way is it like ABA?

Bloody hell. When will people stop trying to cure autism? It’s innate.

@EatSaidPatriarchy

There are differences between EUPD and CPSTD and there's been a huge amount of research on these (ie Cloitre etc).

I don't actually believe in the EUPD diagnosis - it often is diagnosed as "traits" rather than a disorder and it's all very batshit in my opinion. I do however think that a trauma diagnosis or a major depressive diagnosis plus a neurodivergent diagnosis does fit with many people who have a diagnosis of EUPD.

Thank you! Thought I was going mad when everyone was just telling me it is cPTSD when actually I don't know anyone in real life who thinks that.

Well, sometimes someone is diagnosed with ASD traits too. But to meet criteria for a diagnosis you have to have a certain amount. It's the same with any diagnosis to be honest. What do you find batshit about it?

ND and trauma I can see but not really major depressive because noone with EUPD is depressed continuously enough to be diagnosed with that, in my experience.

Like ABA in terms of trying to change our behaviour to something that’s deemed more socially acceptable.

I’m not saying that some of the skills taught aren’t useful for some people. But the way you phrased it made it sound like it would help everyone with ASD, Which it won’t.

@EatSaidPatriarchy

And of course CPTSD is going to influence and person's personality - but there is no such thing as a disordered personality. There's just different ways to react to situations due to previous learned behaviour and experiences.

Sorry not sure if this is an argument for or against EUPD diagnosis? A personality disorder doesn't mean there is anything wrong with your personality - it just means you have learned to think, feel and react in certain ways.

@EatSaidPatriarchy

www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/bzjkwt/the_overlap_between_ptsd_cptsd_bpd_and_mdd/

This is quite a helpful image I've found (not that i agree with all of it)

It won't let me look at it. It says 'unreviewed' but from what I saw it looks interesting.

@watchtheglitterdustswirl - it is exactly the same with people with EUPD. I really like that terminology because it actually really explains what happens to those with EUPD as they grow up.

I'm interested in this theory. What was this conference please ?

@rogueone

Op your trying to squeeze EUPD into ASD and I completely disagree with you. DBT would have zero impact on someone with ASD. You need to educate yourself on the difference as it is very upsetting to see your posts as you clearly do not understand the difference.

I am not squeezing EUPD into ASD atall. That's like me arguing someone is trying to squeeze dyslexia into ASD ! What makes you say DBT would have no effect on someone with Autism? I personally have experience and know others who have too. I am fully aware of the difference, thank you. As do the experts and specialists talking about these things? I'm interested in why you said what you did.

@Bramblesr

I have been diagnosed with EUPD and although I welcomed the diagnosis as it meant I could access treatment. I work within paediatric mental health and special needs education and autism and I really identify with some autism traits and definitely thrives in that environment. I often wonder if I am neuro diverse and also suffered trauma as a child which in combination has caused difficulties in interpersonal relationships. Perhaps my personality traits were exacerbated by the trauma? It’s an interesting question OP

I think this is the kind of theory many are putting forward. I really welcome this angle being looked into. It is very interesting.

@Gilead

I’m autistic. I was born with an autistic spectrum condition. I am not disordered, I do not have a disorder. Before I retired I was part of an autism diagnostic team.

Great. I'm not disordered either.

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

I think DBT would help those with ASD lots

I think DBT would help anyone. It’s nothing like ABA. It’s not only used for BPD either.

Completely agree.

@rogueone

Well I am suprised at the DBT focus and would question that as it has never been a 'treatment' for anyone with autism...as autism is who you are and doesnt require treatment....very odd comments on this thread ...the most effective focus is FBA, sensory assessments, SALT, social stories and PBS...

It actually is used in autism. Sorry FBA? Don't be silly autism doesn't require treatment! Do you even know what DBT is?

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

What about those with EUPD that haven't suffered trauma?

I don’t think there are any.

There are some.

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

Autism is something you are born with. No matter the environment you will always be autistic.

No matter the environment I will always have EUPD. Not sure what you meant by that? Sorry if I've missed something obvious!

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

DBT would have zero impact on someone with ASD

Disagree strongly, as an autistic person helped a lot by DBT. I think it would help anyone and should be taught in schools.

Agree

@Faevern

Except the differences in the brain people with EUPD are born with are really similar.

How can you say this? They would need to have brain scans to verify and compare? Trauma changes the brain.

How would DBT help someone with ASD it’s a huge spectrum. I don’t think you are coming at this objectively.

Yes people are misdiagnosed but you are not born with a personality disorder, unlike ASD.

It would be helpful if you said what you think are the similarities. I suspect there are more differences.

Sorry, this is obviously partly theoretical just want many believe. Trauma does but not everyone with EUPD has experienced trauma. Also trauma can cause traits like autism so how can we be sure autism isn't just trauma? I don't think it is just wondering. Well, DBT is already being used for Autism for a start. EUPD is also a massive spectrum.

Ok similarities:
Black and white thinking
Sensory overload
Interpersonal difficulties
Sensitivity
Very empathetic
Lack of identity
Impulsiveness
Emotional regulation issues
Executive function issues

Just off the top of my head.

Do you know what FBA is?

bizarre thread with folks that think their experts based on a bit of reading. I work in a national programme for those affected who end up in hospital with an ASD and or LD diagnosis...so i do know what i am talking about as I deal with the experts and review their care and treatment...i also know about DBT as it is something that was the focus with those with a diagnosis of PD ... and the old DSPD services now offer this to females witha PD diagnosis

Sorry not sure who asked. The speaker was Sarah-Jane Critchley.

@rogueone

The only evidence around brain abnomality for PD is for psychopaths where they found a difference in the amygdala and there was a family in hollland where they were all psychopaths and found to have this abnormality.....however most with EUPD/BPD is due to trauma due to events post birth,,,,there is no research to suggest there is an abnormality in the brain

This isn't true. Before starting DBT we did a course to learn about EUPD. The specialist presented us with a lot of information about brain differences.