To admit I have no idea wtf is going on with Russia and the

[Dustlandcinderella]

I follow the news and can see that There is a lot about Russia and the Ukraine. But I can’t quite figure out what is happening , what the background is, and what the truth is (bearing in mind in any war there is propaganda on each side).

Am I the only person who doesn’t actually understand what’s going on

susu The UK were not fully on board with the EU in the first place, not for decades, the UK joined a trading organisation not a political superstate. Computers were not even used then when the first troubling developments happened, so bots have not shaped the UK decision, decades of ever closer union shaped the decision to leave.

Please don't derail the thread with another brexit argument. Remainers have never been able to grasp the reasons for our departure, and have always chosen to cling on to Russian bots/influence/poverty. The truth is we are a nation island with our rich history of political and judicial independence, we were never going to be comfortable with being absorbed into a superstate that was being run by the German and French. Even a cursory glance at history would tell you that!

@notimagain

a number of former soviet states are in the EU, which means that they are also in NATO.

Haven’t got time to see if there are exceptions and I very much accept this is me being picky point and open to correction, but I don’t think being in the EU automatically means being in NATO…

lol correction accepted, I probably should have said that any country in the EU is open to join NATO

@didihearthatright123456

My understanding was that when Gorbachov disbanded the soviet union, he agreed with the American presidency at the time - I think it was Reagan, that although the Soviet Union was no longer existed, in order to save the Russians further embarrassment no attempt would be made by NATO or europe to include any former soviet union states.

A verbal agreement was made at the time, of course 30 years later a number of former soviet states are in the EU, which means that they are also in NATO.

Not saying that Putin is reasonable, of course he isn't, he's a stark raving lunatic, but there is a back story to all this.

1. Not all EU countries are in NATO.
2. Gorbachov himself said (in 2014, when the current situation exploded) that no discussion like that has ever taken place.

The whole NATO on the Russian doorstep was a ruse, once Russia have invaded Ukraine fully there will be three NATO countries on the doorstep of Russia, all with guns and missiles pointed directly at them.

Putin has miscalculated the resistance. He has overplayed his hand. There is still time for him to salvage the situation by remaining the contested areas of Ukraine and going no further, depending on his confidence of success ~ it will either be a rerun of Georgia or we are about to see the biggest problems we have seen in the world since the WW2. It is no exaggeration to say we are now in a period of real risk and danger.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon I'm not derailing, I was replying to your post. I'm not interested in a debate about the pros and cons of Brexit.

I didn't say bots were responsible so I stand by my previous reply. Brexit is relevant to the timing of Putins manoeuvres, others on this thread have pointed it out too.

The EU is completely separate from NATO. AFAIK. But there was talk of a European army which is one of the reasons I voted for Brexit.

@DickeryDock

If I ever need to know what is going on and have missed the build up to something. I check out Newsround as they write a simple explanation 🤣

GENIUS 👐👐

susu The brexit vote happened seven years ago! It has absolutely nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with the withdrawal of America on the world stage and the surging power base of China.

You are seriously overstating the importance of brexit when you consider the real power houses involved in this - clue: It is NOT the UK OR even the EU. This is really all about the US and China. With Russia playing junior partner to China. This is a battle now for the new order.

IF Russia win and take over Ukraine and the US sits by and does absolutely SFA what message do you think China will take from that?

This is far far bigger than Ukraine.

@Jusmeee

It's Ukraine not the Ukraine

Interesting that people are phrasing it as “Invade the Ukraine “ No one would say “Invade the Russia” but they might say “Invade the United States”

Probably some grammatical reason?

@oakleaffy maybe because they say ‘the UK’ and Ukraine starts with the same letter? 🧐

@Keepyourheadscrewedon you seem to assumr we have opposing views on brexit, if you wish to continue talking about brexit please dm me instead but I'm really not interested in doing so

The reason why Japan are getting involved is that they now have a vested interest in supporting Europe and not allowing Russia to win, hence the reason of the offer of energy supplies.

This situation does have all the hallmarks of WW3 - anyone failing to see how deeply serious this now is, and recognising that this is not just about Ukraine, but about Taiwan and all the other 'interests' of China and Russia for sure that will be coming up next....both China and Russia wish to expand.

I would help if we could rely on the West to stand firm on sanctions. But, while they might make the appropriate noises, that isn't going to happen. Germany desperately needs Russian gas for a start.

The west will have to stand by the strongest sanctions now. Russia expect this, it will not deprive Putin and cronies of their luxuries and they don't care about ordinary Russians anyway and will blame the west for the extreme poverty that will follow.

I find this thread terrifying to read, but seems at odds with what I read in the news.

There's fuck all I can do about it so I am turning the news off.

@notimagain

a number of former soviet states are in the EU, which means that they are also in NATO.

Haven’t got time to see if there are exceptions and I very much accept this is me being picky point and open to correction, but I don’t think being in the EU automatically means being in NATO…

Hah yeah it does not, Finland and Sweden are EU but not NATO (which I must admit, is a bit worrying at the moment, living in Finland with Putin waving his willy around - no one has to defend us if he, in the very very unlikely but not impossible scenario, invades)

What is different on the news out of interest cross are you in Russia? Because there you will hear that this is all the fault of the west for threatening Russia with NATO and supplying Ukraine with nuclear weapons and genocide against Russian separatists. The brain washing machine is in full swing in the last 24 hours - full swing, but Putin doesn't answer to anyone so I wonder why he is even bothering to try and convince the Russians that he is invading Ukraine for their benefit!

Australian here so excuse my ignorance. What's the problem with being part of NATO? Why does he dislike NATO so much?

Has covid badly affected Russia?

‘ But the Ukraine is a tiny country?’

Ukraine is large country, check the map.

NATO was formed after the world war to ensure peace and stability across Europe and to ensure that Russia does not undermine the security of Europe after the cold war.

Putin couldn't care less about the huge loss of life from covid thanks to their failed Sputnik vaccine programme, he is only interested in reclaiming lost countries of the USSR that are now peaceful democracies with their own values. It is very serious for the world, because the consequences will be huge.

Anyone else think Putin is actually Mel Brooks? images.app.goo.gl/TkoN1ruvWAPJM4jy8

It’s Ukraine. Not THE Ukraine. If I remember rightly the “the” was put in by Russia to refer to Ukraine as “the border lands” in a derogatory sense.

Here he is

I don't think this is the time or place for lame jokes joy you do realise thousands of people, children and babies are likely to die?