To admit I have no idea wtf is going on with Russia and the

[Dustlandcinderella]

I follow the news and can see that There is a lot about Russia and the Ukraine. But I can’t quite figure out what is happening , what the background is, and what the truth is (bearing in mind in any war there is propaganda on each side).

Am I the only person who doesn’t actually understand what’s going on

We are obviously in very dangerous times because a deranged and unstable man like Putin will need to win at all costs, and of course we all worry what all costs means, but Ukraine seems to be leading the way and showing the world what they are made of.

According to the Russian schedule Kyiv should have been under Russian control on day 2 along with all major cities, this simply has not happened. The longer the capital and large cities can hold out, the better their chances of the Russians running out of supplies, armour, food etc - they don't need to keep going forever. Russia is also experiencing heavy losses of soldiers and hardware.

The next 24 hours is really key.

Will Putin come to the table and broker a compromise that he is happy with and walk away letting the world know he means business now? He can still save face if he does that now or will he lash out and do something terrible out of desperation.......no one knows but I would say the by this time tomorrow and into the next few days we will have a better idea.

What I mean by* push back if necessary"

Means exactly that.

Russia goes for any other country now? Who within the EU has the army to assist?

Leaving US NATO out, Who?
Russia goes for Poland, can they hold the line? Moldova? Romania? Who??

Italy, do they have a decent army? Spain?

tiger I believe that Germany and Italy in particular are the problem, and this for Germany has been a public relations nightmare. They were slow to impose any sanctions, Nord stream 2, they have not supplied or helped Ukraine at all, save a few helmets! They have deliberately blocked further harsher actions by the allies and turned up to a meeting with Putin (Macron as well) playing them both for fools as they tried to arrange a 'meeting' with Biden, Putin was giving the green light to invade. They have seemed grotesquely ill informed, ill prepared and slow to manage any response of note. And I am sure we will hear that it is hard to get 27 nations to agree, but isn't that the point? At moments of crisis we don't have months to broker back room deals, we have to respond swiftly and robustly.

And even today Germany (and Italy) are blocking the removal of Russia from Swift. Self interest seems to be first and foremost even as their neighbours are being blown up and murdered as they stall and dither.

It is disgusting.

Collectively NATO will blow Russia into another universe overnight (as Putin well knows) but they could not do so without the US, and the UK to some extent and France is a fairly bigger hitter too tiger

I'm not talking about NATO but which European countries invest into their military for their safety?

If they choose not too, why are other countries putting into their military to support them

Keep I wouldn't Bank on it being so easy for NATO if China got involved, north Korea , Pakistan... Iran
..

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Collectively NATO will blow Russia into another universe overnight (as Putin well knows) but they could not do so without the US, and the UK to some extent and France is a fairly bigger hitter too tiger

But Russia has said many times over the years that there would be an automatic counter attack within 3 seconds. That they would not start a nuclear war but that they would counter attack. I believe them. Is that what you want? This is why I and so many others are encouraging negotiation and diplomacy and why it is so shocking that you and other posters have seen this as us being pro Russian.

@Tigersonvaseline

I'm not talking about NATO but which European countries invest into their military for their safety?

If they choose not too, why are other countries putting into their military to support them

I’m confused….Who is putting their military into where?

If NATO does not respond to an attack on one of its neighbours then that will be the end of NATO, quite possibly the end of the EU, and the start of serious unrest throughout the continent.

Of course we will honour our international obligations. Also some of us do not forget our kinships to Europeans. The same as the way Poland is welcoming in Ukrainian refugees. The amount of surprise over that is making me laugh.

China have made it clear that they are not getting involved, and have publicly condemned the invasion. Putin has no friends to speak of. China was his best chance. Just a couple of tin pot countries.

Some countries like India and UAE are hoping dialogue will win out, and want to keep channels open.

Russia is no match the whole of Nato, and who cares if they respond? I am not sure why anyone should care about that. We can't have a despot marauding all over Europe. We have had one before remember, and look how that worked out! This has been very good for Nato, and strengthened the alliance. No one in Europe can seriously sit back now and think of Russia as friendly nation, this has opened up the eyes of the west, and now things will change.

socks You don't murder and bomb your way to diplomacy. Diplomacy is something countries do sitting around tables and with discussion, Russia killing and murdering innocent people is not 'diplomacy' is it!! I am not sure what you hope to achieve, people can see what Russia is doing in real time, so perhaps direct your thoughts to the people dying at this very moment in the name of Putin's 'diplomacy'

He is a man that has gone mad during lockdown and has lost all grasp of reality surrounded by yes men that are too scared to say what they really think, do you honestly think he is even capable of a coherent conversation. He is a cold blooded murderer with the most chilling indifference last night, he was snarling like a wild animal even as he rained down rockets and bombs on small children and babies.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

China have made it clear that they are not getting involved, and have publicly condemned the invasion. Putin has no friends to speak of. China was his best chance. Just a couple of tin pot countries.

Some countries like India and UAE are hoping dialogue will win out, and want to keep channels open.

Russia is no match the whole of Nato, and who cares if they respond? I am not sure why anyone should care about that. We can't have a despot marauding all over Europe. We have had one before remember, and look how that worked out! This has been very good for Nato, and strengthened the alliance. No one in Europe can seriously sit back now and think of Russia as friendly nation, this has opened up the eyes of the west, and now things will change.

socks You don't murder and bomb your way to diplomacy. Diplomacy is something countries do sitting around tables and with discussion, Russia killing and murdering innocent people is not 'diplomacy' is it!! I am not sure what you hope to achieve, people can see what Russia is doing in real time, so perhaps direct your thoughts to the people dying at this very moment in the name of Putin's 'diplomacy'

He is a man that has gone mad during lockdown and has lost all grasp of reality surrounded by yes men that are too scared to say what they really think, do you honestly think he is even capable of a coherent conversation. He is a cold blooded murderer with the most chilling indifference last night, he was snarling like a wild animal even as he rained down rockets and bombs on small children and babies.

This has been explained to you before, but I will try again.

What is important here is the outcome, not the fact that Putin's attack is not diplomacy.

The point is that it is how this is handled which will make the difference to how the world looks in the future.

China is not saying what you are saying at all. China is neutral at the moment (which is good) and is calling for negotation and it is critical of how the West has handled the conflict so far and they are not calling for war.

You might be saying Russia's military and nuclear strength is irrelevant but no one in power and no experts in relation to military and nuclear strength are saying that!

If NATO does not respond to an attack on one of its neighbours then that will be the end of NATO,

‘Scuse me quoting myself, I meant of course ‘if it does not respond to an attack on one of its signatories’, not neighbours. Neighbours being the issue. Doing other things at the same time.

Still at it @Keepyourheadscrewedon so far this week you have assured us that: Hitler started WW1, Putin has an IQ of less than 100, Russia was of no use to the western allies in WW2 to name a few

Maybe you could try some background reading
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?

plus

foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/23/united-states-europe-war-russia-ukraine-sleepwalking

Both of which offer insights into the situation.

Russia sees Ukraine as a vital interest (and thus worth fighting for) while the West sees it as less than vital (and thus not worth fighting for). A failure of diplomacy has led to this situation and it can only be resolved by talking.

I dont understand it either

Also, @Keepyourheadscrewedon the BBC editor who investigates misinformation has said that a lot of the reports coming out of Ukraine have been misinformation, which is not at all helpful either. This isn't to say the reports of dead and wounded and whether or not children are incorrect but the reports do all say that they have not yet been verified.

socks

You need to post a link to confirm China defending Russia, because I have seen zero evidence of that. China voted to 'abstain' just yesterday at the security council, citing they DO NOT agree with the war. They could have vetoed and supported Russia, but they choose not to.
China is neutral, it does not agree with this action at all, they have been extremely clear about that, and it is good move. This is a total disaster and not one they wish to be associated with.

What is important here is the outcome, not the fact that Putin's attack is not diplomacy

No, what is really important here is NOT the outcome, but the thousands of lives being lost for no good reason. There is no good outcome for Russia. Best case scenario and they take over Ukraine - it will never be accepted or recognised by the rest of the world, and the west will continue to arm the Ukrainian forces until Ukraine is reinstated. A war that could go on and on and on. Ukraine are never giving up their independence again and with 44 million (armed) people, I don't fancy Russia's chances even in the medium term. This will break Russia if they follow this route and that is the best case, the worst case is that Russia actually lose this war.

You know socks there is a madman running Russia now, you should be more afraid of this then you appear to be, because if he makes a move out of desperation and does something truly despicable because he can't afford to lose then there will be no coming back from that. You have a little Hitler on your hands, if you can get him to talk and compromise, go for it - we are all ears.

The whole world (including Russians) stand united with Ukraine.

The whole world wants Ukraine to prevail, and to return to their peaceful prosperity stronger than before.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

The whole world (including Russians) stand united with Ukraine.

The whole world wants Ukraine to prevail, and to return to their peaceful prosperity stronger than before.

Russians stand with Ukraine? Im now more confused

Yes many millions of Russians are against this war, you can not ignore them and Putin does not speak for them.

Ok but they are being punished anyway with the sanctions and everything else. Putin is mad

This war only has one person that is responsible for it: Putin.

It starts and ends with him.

The world stands by Ukraine.

The Russian people need to find the strength to get rid of Putin. That is a matter for them. The sanctions were a choice, Putin said he did not care, so I will take him at his word.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Yes many millions of Russians are against this war, you can not ignore them and Putin does not speak for them.

I see a lot of Russians enjoying our freedoms here in London but they support Putin. They should be made to leave. They are corrupting us and our country.

Really? Get them out now !

There's a long list of Western politicians in Europe who have supported Putin and given him and his associates a feather bed. Kleptocracy in the UK and the EU. That's on us to fix.

Russia isn't even a functioning democracy - given that, what difference does it make it that ordinary Russians may not agree? They have never had a say in their country.