Upset with piano teacher at school

[CarolinaStabril]

Hi I’m just looking for other opinions please.
My daughter Yr 1 started piano lessons last term. We signed up for group tuition as this was cheaper but as of yet the teacher is unable to group her as no other children in her class have signed up.

She missed 3 lessons due to Covid and the teacher kindly offered to carry them over.

The piano teacher also teaches guitar and she messaged me saying that my daughter wanted to swap to guitar. I said thanks but I’d like her to stick to piano. Teacher then messaged back saying guitar would be better as she would be in a group with other children and she would be able to practise at home.
I replied no I want her to stick to piano. Teacher then became quite (in my opinion) blunt and basically said that her progress would therefore be very limited as she does not have a piano or keyboard to practise on at home. I then responded with well I’ll get her a piano then!
I just feel the teacher is trying to control my decision for my daughter to learn piano- not sure if I’ve misread the situation?

My personal experience having used musical children, playing both guitar and piano, electric piano and electric keyboard.

Just to say with a home (electric) piano, it’s important to know that an electric keyboard is fundamentally different to an electric piano, the instrument, amount of keys etc is different, and tuition differs. There are plenty on marketplace, eBay etc but if you’re going to invest you need to research and understand what you’re buying. If you’re going electric, you would ideally get an electric piano with full weighted keys. Not meaning to be patronising at all but you just have to understand the difference.

School music lesson are a bare minimum. They disrupt lessons, the dc hated leaving lessons they were engaged in to go to them, they often don’t gel with the sometimes very strict piece choices of the music teacher, and this is disheartening and demotivating (there are great teachers out there and some dc have great experiences, no offence intended), and at sometimes only 20 minutes long they don’t get too much from them. They have to be supplemented by out of school lessons and at home practise.

If you/they want to be any good and achieve grades they must practise pretty much daily even if just little and often to start ,and learn theory. Some dc who are learning primarily because parents want them to, find this an unenjoyable chore and dealing with this daily can be hard. It’s a seriously big time and financial commitment.

My dc tried various sports, dance, music lessons etc to experience things and find what they liked and enjoyed. It’s important to accept that they might not have a flair for it or enjoy it.

Dd1 started guitar very young, I think she was year 2, and went on to piano and electronic keyboard (as mentioned, different to electric piano). On the whole I would say mine have preferred guitar overall, it’s the instrument they’ve enjoyed and played more through choice. It’s versatile, social, a little more fun and a very portable instrument so don’t write it off.

I've seen this thread before, without the guitar bit. The OP was whinging that her daughter's piano teacher had said there was no point in lessons unless they had an instrument at home to practice on.

@DenholmElliot

There was a very similar thread on here a few months ago saying exactly the same thing "I'm in the process of buying a keyboard" - what does "in the process of" mean? Either you've brought one or you haven't?

"In the process of" doing something means you haven't done it.

She's Y1, she's a very little girl still, if she doesn't want to learn piano, why are you trying to make her?

@OfstedOffred

year 1 is very young and I tend not to have any real progress and focus from them until mid year 2.

Eh? This is a load of rubbish, my nieces and nephews have all started aged 5 and made rapid progress in the first year. I started aged 5 at the beginning of reception and my parents said I got going quickly.

It's really not rubbish - of course there are always exceptions, but my piano teacher mum didn't start children until they were at least 7, after attempting far too many lessons with younger children who just weren't ready.

On the whole, 5 year olds can't recognise letters (and therefore notes) accurately, can't count or understand rhythm accurately, and don't focus on the lesson.

My mum taught one memorable 5 year old child who's sole purpose in life was to become a cowboy - he turned up to every lesson in full cowboy dress complete with toy guns, and pretended to shoot my mum throughout the lessons. He was very cute, but definitely not ready to learn piano!

If your nieces and nephews all started at 5 and made rapid progress, then they are certainly the exception that proves the rule.

Year 1 is very, very little to be learning an instrument. Learning an instrument requires a lot of innate drive to get better, which a 5/6 year old just doesn't have. Plus, without having a piano at home, she can't practice! Which is the sole point of learning an instrument. Without practice, of course she hasn't progressed. A 30 minute lesson (once a week I presume?) isn't enough for a 5/6 year old to make any progress without practice at home.

@budgiegirl 5 year olds are expected to be able to read independently and recognise multiple digraphs.

@DestinyIsAll

Most of this I totally agree with. Yes there is a difference between electric piano and electric keyboard. Personally I would always go for piano lessons as you can then play keyboard but if you are not used to weighted keys it would be hard to do it later. But I still maintain a cheap keyboard is better than nothing for piano lessons. I taught in deprived areas of London where all they could manage was a basic keyboard but progress was still made.
BUT I fundamentally disagree that in-school lessons should be supplemented with out of school ones. Unless they are group ones in school. Your child should only have 1 piano/instrument teacher. More than that and they will say that there other teacher said to do if differently (even if it's just a misunderstanding) and they have less respect for the teacher. It's just confusing for the child. I do agree though that sadly a lot of peri teachers in school are not brilliant, largely due to the fact they are paid much less and are usually over worked. (Speaking from experience)

At the end of the day if you have a teacher they like, that inspires them and makes them work, that's all that matters. And also practice of course!

She'll have so much more fun learning to play guitar, but I guess it's not fun you're after.

Your child's music teacher wants her to enjoy music and to progress with it. That's all. They're explaining to you, in the clearest and most professional way possible, that it would be beneficial to your child to try a different instrument where they can make more progress, and that this would be a better use of your child's time (and your money). They've given you sensible advice. You're not obliged to take it if you don't want to. You can find another piano teacher if you want to.

Is there a particular reason you want her to play one instrument and not another? Why is piano superior to guitar, in your eyes? If it's so important to you that she plays piano and you never had any intention of letting her stop, why on earth didn't you make sure she had, at the very least, a keyboard to practise on? If it wasn't important enough to get a cheap keyboard at the start, why is it now suddenly the be-all-and-end-all that she plays piano and not another equally valid instrument? I get the impression that the only reason you want your daughter to play piano is because you want to make a point to the music teacher - despite the fact that they had your daughter's best interests at heart.

And why on earth would you expect the teacher to keep you in the guitar WhatsApp group when you have made it clear that you don't want your daughter to play guitar? Of course you would be removed from that group, because it's got nothing to do with you?!

The teacher is roght though. Why on earth would you book lessons when you dont have a piano for her to practice on at home? How odd!!

@Thenosleepclub, My dc did both school and out of school lessons,, but for us the school lessons weren’t great. Mine didn’t have any problems having two teachers, just with other issues I mentioned. This was our personal experience though.

It depends what the dc want out of it too. My dc were in a great local music/performing/songwriting programme and liked the creative aspect, preferring tutors that were willing/able to take into account their likes and what inspired them. There not much time at school and some teachers tended to be very rigid, which I accept to a degree, but I also think music should be inspiring and though with dc they can find lessons and practise tedious at times, on the whole it should be enjoyable. Mine just did progress better, faster and with more enthusiasm and enjoyment out of school. Still obviously lots of structure and compulsory pieces with grades, but more opportunity to also play more personal choice alongside.

Realistically my dc should probably have just learned outside school, but they liked to participate in school music events etc and the school encouraged (essentially expected) lessons as part of this. If I had to say choose one or the other I’d go out of school, unless the school is known to have a particularly good teacher and I know there are good ones out there! 😊 . I do fully appreciate the cost involved, and take your point regarding the area you worked.

I’ve bought/sold on lots of our instruments second hand and if you know what you’re looking for you can find some real hardly used bargains.

I also agree about choosing piano. After years of my dd focusing on electronic keyboard grades (her tutor sold her on it at a young age because of all the fun bells and whistles), she went on to do a music degree based on keyboard and guitar, but these days as an adult she prefers piano and really wishes she had done that from the start.

Are you some sort of tiger mom

@Blueeyedgirl21

Are you some sort of tiger mom

She’s like the opposite of tiger mom.

Tiger mom would know you don’t start piano lessons until you have a piano.

[quote Duracellbunnywannabe]@budgiegirl 5 year olds are expected to be able to read independently and recognise multiple digraphs.[/quote]
That's true, and I didn't really explain my point very well. Yes, many 5 year olds can read independently, but recognising the placement of a note on a stave, translating it to a letter and then finding the placement of that lettered key on the keyboard, to the level that is required if the child is to progress at piano, is a skill that is beyond most 5 year olds.

Or at least it is in the experience of my mum, who was a piano teacher for 40 years. She found that most children developed this skill at around 7 years old, so to try to teach piano to younger children was a bit of a waste of everyones time and money. Better to wait until the child was ready to learn, and could enjoy their lessons and practice.

@budgiegirl thank you for this. I have a 5 year old who wants to learn to play the piano and knew it was too early but I wasn’t sure when is a good time to start.

@budgiegirl

Teaching young children from the music is not a very effective method. There are methods used worldwide to teach children on instruments much earlier than 7. In E.Europe, Asia, US it’s normal to start at 3/4.

For young children it’s more effective to learn play aurally and learn technique until they are old enough to start reading the notes. Sight reading techniques, including rhythm recognition and solfege, can be taught too to expedite the process.

But you need a teacher who specialises in teaching children. Seven is actually quite late. You’d have to be gifted and work hard to make sufficient progress. That’s why so many give up.

Teaching young children from the music is not a very effective method. There are methods used worldwide to teach children on instruments much earlier than 7. In E.Europe, Asia, US it’s normal to start at 3/4

But it’s not normal in the U.K. (I’m assuming this is where the OP is located) Most piano teachers, to my knowledge, don’t use these methods (happy to be corrected here). I’ve had two piano teachers myself, my mum was a teacher, and my DD also has had two teachers - all taught reading music along with sight reading, rhythm, theory etc.

So , yes, I guess the age a child can start does depend on the methods used. For many in the U.K., this will be 7. Parents will need to ask potential teachers for their advice. Which is what the OPs child’s teacher was trying to give.

You don't have a piano and you want her to learn piano?
Are you mental?

A keyboard is no use.

She will need a full size electric piano with fully weighted touch sensitive keys.
Even the most basic piano courses start with dynamics really quickly. That's some thing thats impossible to master on a cheap keyboard.

My DD's have had school lessons since year 1, there was a requirement to have an instrument of their own (you could rent most instruments but for piano you had to state you had a piano (standard or digital) or fully weighted keyboard with pedals when you registered. Yabu to still not have one over a term later. Instrument lessons are voluntary

But your decision is based on rank ignorance.

@Budgiegirlbob

Teaching young children from the music is not a very effective method. There are methods used worldwide to teach children on instruments much earlier than 7. In E.Europe, Asia, US it’s normal to start at 3/4

But it’s not normal in the U.K. (I’m assuming this is where the OP is located) Most piano teachers, to my knowledge, don’t use these methods (happy to be corrected here). I’ve had two piano teachers myself, my mum was a teacher, and my DD also has had two teachers - all taught reading music along with sight reading, rhythm, theory etc.

So , yes, I guess the age a child can start does depend on the methods used. For many in the U.K., this will be 7. Parents will need to ask potential teachers for their advice. Which is what the OPs child’s teacher was trying to give.

It is actually 'normal' here, as in there are plenty of teachers specialising in starting young ones, you just have to know what to look for.

Oh my goodness. Teachers are professionals and she is giving her professional opinion. Buy a piano or change to the guitar. Some people really have too much time on their hands to worry about if a teacher is being 'off' with them.