Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I had a really interesting job once, interviewing long term unemployed people as part of a university study aimed at trying to find out the answer to this kind of question.

In most cases, the unemployment was almost hereditary - neither parents nor grandparents had worked, work wasn't seen as something people really 'did' and a lot of times opportunities to engage in training or apprenticeships or whatever were met with amusement or hostility from friends and family, rather than with support. A lot of the younger men (20s) in particular were actually embarrassed to be seen to be trying to 'better' themselves and so they just... didn't. Some had been given support to access employment or training opportunities with grants for clothing and bus fare to attend interviews etc but wouldn't go because their mates took the piss. People fear change and feel threatened by other people trying to change and so this was the outcome. It was really depressing.

At the time (this was 15 years ago for context) some of them were also in receipt of a huge amount of benefits, a lot were 'earning' more than I was in my graduate job, and therefore there was no motivation to change things from a financial point of view either. Obviously this situation has changed but it must be challenging to change a mindset like the above, if that's what you have been born and raised with.

I don't think it's always about aspirations or seeing it around you - loads of poor kids aspire to be rich football players or pop stars when they don't know any of either.

Having a good job requires a lot of work put in for a lot of years, often a lot of work put in for not necessarily much fun or money at the beginning, if no one has encouraged you to put in a lot of hard work or had very high expectations of you when you're school age you're less likely to have those high expectations for yourself or want to put in the hard work as you get older IMO.

However 'good jobs' often require you to be able to cope with a lot of stress and pressure and I genuinely think a lot of people are just not cut out to cope with the stress and pressure that such jobs put on them - so many people struggle with their mental health especially anxiety and the stress and pressure of a 'good job' can be too much.
Sometimes people are much happier in lower paid, less stressful jobs so there has to be some balance.

So I would say, loads of support and encouragement when they are young, making sure they always do their homework, lots of educational opportunities - going to the library every week, going to museums, doing lots of fun things with them that they learn from - gardening, cooking, painting etc, buying them presents that have an educational slant - board games, lego, arts and crafts and just spending a lot of time engaging with them.

Read Elena Ferrante's trilogy. It starts in 1950s Sicily so a very different time, but it compares two equally gifted girls from a poor estate, one a little less poor than the other and how that changes their futures. There is a TV series as well.

For me it’s a confidence thing. I grew up in an abusive household. Both my parents were bullies. I had a son at 17, went back to college and gained qualifications. When I mentioned going to university, my dad told me I wasn’t clever enough.
I did later go to university and gained a first. In between this though, I then got embroiled in an abusive relationship, and whatever confidence I had has now gone. I know I am an intelligent person, I can carry myself well. Due to experiences and lack of support however, I don’t feel I have the mental capacity to take strive anymore.
I feel your environment as a child plays a huge part in how you respond to experiences you have later in life, and how we respond to them as adults.

@Orangade

It’s learned helplessness.

Life is harder when you’re poor, things are stacked against you and you learn to expect to get shat on.
There is no backup plan when you’re poor, you become risk averse (eg fear of debt resulting in not wanting a student loan).

To encourage high aspirations in your children help them to experience success at the things that matter to them and to believe that they can achieve anything they set their mind to, and that you will always love them and be there for them and put a roof over their head if things go wrong.

This is so true.

I worked as a TA and sometimes I felt I was actually doing a disservice to some children from deprived backgrounds. The more you do for them, the less motivated they were to break out of the cycle of underachievement. There was an expectation of support from the parents but they weren’t prepared to fulfil their side of the deal because they placed no value on education. They were quick enough to be there to see their children in the nativity play but would never engage in fun workshops that were set up by the school to encourage interaction between parents and children. The activities weren’t even academic, they were practical, entertaining things like simple cookery, games etc. everything was provided by the school - they just had to turn up.

Many years ago, a retired teacher told me that one of the most encouraging and motivating things is to simply go for a walk with your children, talk to them, listen to them, ask them what they feel about certain issues, value their opinions. It doesn’t even have to be about clever stuff. Just communicate.

Sadly, all I see know is parents (and children) from a certain demographic glued to their phones with the only interaction being a shout to stop doing something. Maybe that’s the issue, higher achieving families have stricter boundaries about things like screen time? As a parent, it’s the easiest thing to take the soft option for a quiet life but there are times when you have to push on through, deal with the confrontations and make it an automatic expectation that your children will achieve rather than blaming society/money/everyone else.

Take your children to the library and encourage reading. Limit television and screens to they develop a love for books.

Read a lot. Talk about numbers around you.

Watch interesting things on the television with them and talk about it together.

Go to free museums and art galleries. They have lovely children’s resources free often. Chat to people there you might meet like minded friends.

Encourage hobbies or sports if you possibly can the reason being that it helps so much as teens to have that interest group to spend time with rather than hanging around in a vacuum and it increases confidence.

Make homework and school important and valued. Many people don’t realise the relatively very large amount of homework and effort expected from children at private schools. But always make sure you show love and validation just for themselves not their achievements.

Try to eat together and talk about things.

Get to know other parents at school. Never feel embarrassed to ask for help or advice. Say if a parent has a profession and could offer work to experience, that could be a huge help. Nice ones will positively want to help. Private schools get parents to do this.

Don’t feel uneasy about being poorer ( very difficult). Of course money matters and it grinds people down not to have it, but even if you are poor all your life, education and interests enhance it and you can have friends with those interests in common. You must get education to get on to the next stage professionally.

If your children are artistic encourage their passion and help them work hard at it but try ti get professional qualifications.

I have no idea how to find out what jobs there are that pay well, other than the obvious stuff like surgeon or pilot.
How do you get to know this stuff?

@RosesAndHellebores

Because my dc's friends' parents were: bankers, lawyers, doctors (usually consultants), chartered surveyors, business men and women, accountants, actuaries, a couple of public figures, an MP, senior executives, etc. There were a few so wealthy they didn't work.

DH's grandad was a miner and then he joined the army. Spent his life in service after that. His DC became teachers, nurses, joined the forces and that is what their DC experienced. Their DC mostly went to good uni's and there are a couple of Drs, a couple of lawyers, a vicar and the rest are mostly solidly middle middle - teaching/nursing/local government.

My grandparents had inherited wealth and a farm - IHT and my mother eroded their wealth.

Fortunately I was a grafter and made enough to live well; I then married DH who was v successful.

It takes three generations to rise and three to fall.

The three generations thing is so true for my family!

My grandpa grew up in poverty, was the family in the street where they had to go knocking on the other houses to see if the neighbours could feed him and his sisters. When he married my grandma they first lived in a caravan. He qualified as an electrician and had little formal education.

My mum (his daughter) left school at 16 and went to college to study childcare. She then married my dad, a teacher.

I went to university and work in HR. My dp is in finance. We are in top 10% earners category.

@Ohmamma30

For me it’s a confidence thing. I grew up in an abusive household. Both my parents were bullies. I had a son at 17, went back to college and gained qualifications. When I mentioned going to university, my dad told me I wasn’t clever enough. I did later go to university and gained a first. In between this though, I then got embroiled in an abusive relationship, and whatever confidence I had has now gone. I know I am an intelligent person, I can carry myself well. Due to experiences and lack of support however, I don’t feel I have the mental capacity to take strive anymore. I feel your environment as a child plays a huge part in how you respond to experiences you have later in life, and how we respond to them as adults.

It's exhausting when you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop and wipe out your financial resources and take away your home…

Anecdotally id say

In some areas, there is an embedded aspiration to have kids, stay local and not much more. You have a baby, live by Mom and Nan and then help out when the kids have kids.
School is compulsory but if you can read and write and add up you don't need to go beyond that. No one else went to University and they're all happy.
No one they actually knowis a Dr, lawyer etc., so these things are unattainable. You might know a care worker or a hair dresser etc, these jobs fit around the kids.
This is just how life is. There isn't money to waste on fancy classes or uni. College is OK, vocation courses lead to work so that's a good.
Parents didn't do great at school so struggle to educationally support their older kids.

All of that is a massive stereotype but it's an amalgamation of lots of kids from similar areas iyswim.

I grew up in a one parent family, council area etc. I'm still wc and not well off but I do have a University education, I've travelled to interesting places. We were encouraged to work hard at school and it was clear school mattered. There were always books to read (passed on, library, same ones read and reread again and again), I wasn't told what my life would be so didn't understand some people might expect me to have limits.
However,
DSis and I are totally different, we both did well at school, she didn't want to move away and had DNeph young. She's never travelled anywhere beyond the typical holiday destinations, would never travel alone. I had kids in my 30s and still have itchy feet. We're both WC, SAHMs at present. Sometimes the same upbringing makes different children.

Lot of people here framing is as the poor failing to have high aspirations beacuse of their mindset/willingness to achieve but I disagree.

Cold hard truth is that a lot of 'high aspiration' outcomes in life require a) cash and/or b) connections. Little Jonny from the council estate can work and dream as much as he likes, but unless his parents can afford to fund the training and attending events there are whole areas like performance and competetive sports are out of the question. Similarly most 'entrepreneurs' will either have generous start up cash from relations or family connections that give them an in with related industries which will help them get contracts to start out with etc.

Even in employment when things are done on 'skill' that often really comes down to what you can afford to do in terms of unpaid work experience/low paid internships, the kids that are subsidised by parent support can access those oppotunities get the skills, experience , and references necessary for success in competitive industries, while kids from poorer/average backgrounds have to focus their time and efforts on covering the cost of living first.

The other day on my local area’s mums facebook group, a mum was asking advice as to what to do; her daughter had gotten into maths and now wanted to sit the higher paper. The number of responses asking why she wanted to do it? What would she get out if it? I was shocked. I think I was the only person who told her to encourage her daughter to carrying on studying!

In my family if anyone wants to study anything everyone is very encouraging and there certainly isn’t a question of actively being against it which these people were suggesting that the woman. A lot of people wrote what the point!

Just encourage your children to read, do maths, take up opportunities to learn and explore things like museums etc.

Immediate gratification Vs investment.

If you grow up with little certainty about the future, you grab the little you can asap.

Being able to give up pleasures in the belief that you'll get more later involves believing in that future and even considering the future.

It's a mindset that is part of culture and education.

A lot of the younger men (20s) in particular were actually embarrassed to be seen to be trying to 'better' themselves and so they just... didn't.
Yes, can't have people getting too big for their boots. Thinking they're better than their parents with their fancy notions. It was good enough for your Grandad and Dad, it's good enough for you

So out of interest @Oysterbabe, what was it that made the difference in your case, do you think? Can you identify anything which contributed to you aiming higher than others in your family?

I think there was a lot of random chance involved but it was mostly personality type. I was quite competitive and I wanted to do well in class and beat the other kids at stuff. I was also too scared of getting in trouble to behave badly. I ended up in the top sets with other children who were quite motivated to learn. They were all going to 6th form so I did too and when they were doing uni applications I did too. My parents were passively supportive. They were proud I was doing well and happy that I had decided to go to university without encouraging me to do so. I did a science degree and most of the friends I made were doing pretty serious courses and had career plans.
My siblings just never gave a shit about school and started bunking off as soon as they started secondary. I would have just been too scared of getting in trouble to do that!

In addition to all the above in regard to cultural capital and available opportunities, can we bring things up to date with modern economic realities? In current times you have to ask just what is the practical reward for education now.

Even those that do well educationally and in work compared to previous generations are getting locked out of the lifestyles their parents enjoyed.

The motivation simply isn’t there in a country where inheritance and not your own work determines your wealth.

And this is famous field research on the subject. revisesociology.com/2016/01/25/learning-to-labour-paul-willis-summary-evaluation-research-methods/

Security is a massive part of it.

When I was at uni I got a part-time job that paid relatively well. When they offered me full time hours it was a massive dilemma.

Because uni would have given me the opportunity to do better and go further, but a proper full time job with a decent wage offered security that was incredibly tempting.

I was lucky that my Nana (who brought me up) was adamant that I don't give up uni. She didn't want me to just have a job, she wanted me to have the chance of a career. But I know three other people who did exactly that.

And a few people I went to school with went for the job without any thought of uni.

Upper middles classes like to perpetuate the myth that working class children aren't as ambitious as their children so they don't feel bad about the structural inequality they are complicit in.

Agreed with pp^

Also, just from my own experience… I think the biggest challenge was being unaware of the jobs and career paths that existed. Of course my parents and I had heard about the obvious career paths like becoming a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant or Teacher etc etc.

However those ‘traditional’ career paths often (but not always) except you to have specialised qualifications. Because I had chosen to study a non STEM degree at Uni (humanities topic) most of my family would joke about “what are you going to do with that?”

When making small talk with family/friends they would ask what I was studying at uni, and most didn’t understand the point of studying it, because they thought there weren’t many related career paths. Most of my family thought the only viable career option I has was to become a teacher. I knew I never wanted to become a teacher as I’m not the right person, and so as a uni student I was extremely worried about my future prospects.

In reality, so many people work in different fields to their degree subject and many graduate jobs (even prestigious firms) won’t require you to have a specific degree. I now work in marketing, and I never thought I would have been good enough to do so when I was a student.

In my current role I regularly work alongside content editors, UX designers, product owners, and many more. As a young student I didn’t know the difference between these roles or wouldn’t have the confidence to apply for them because I didn’t know enough or understand corporate terminology.
I always attended employer careers sessions at my university to get as many tips as possible when making applications but I remember feeing like they spoke a different language to me, and a lot of the corporate terms went over my head. It took me a while in my first graduate role to adjust to some of the words/phrases used. Because of this I didn’t perform well at interviews. Also, I received hugely conflicting advice when asking adults in my life about interview tips (it was hard to know who to believe!) - I didn’t know any in corporate jobs.

It is about what you see. Of course some people from poorer backgrounds will "break through" but they're the exception not the rule.

I come from a sort of lower middle class family. I was the first to go to university and I have a good career. I've done "better" than my parents - BUT it's kind of one rung up the ladder. It never crossed my mind I could have gone to oxbridge, could have earned a lot of money, etc. because I just didn't have that model anywhere in my network as a child. Wealthy very successful people were "other". I think you can imagine yourself doing something better but only within a sphere of imagination.

There are also many many real barriers for people from poorer backgrounds including not knowing anyone to give them an internship etc, not being able to afford to do that, not knowing who to ask about stuff, being discriminated against because of race or simply having a name that suggests they're poor - people hire in their own image. Poorer people may be more likely to have to move home after uni if they go, to help at home or look after someone maybe, or they can't afford their own place, opportunities may be limited where they live...

It's systemic and multi layered. Honestly if I were you the best thing I think you can do is try to get them connected with mentors who are very successful and who don't perceive these barriers. The attitude will wear off. Week courses at oxbridge for school kids helps them see themselves there. That kind of thing.

@united4ever

If not mentioned already then Confidence.

Privately educated kids especially seem to be more confident. it's a valuable attribute in pursuing a career.

I think confidence is all important. Given that so many people suffer from anxiety I wonder sometimes how easily that confidence comes to young people, especially given the pressures on them. Certainly the careers advice work I did demonstrated how many people simply aren't aware of the range of careers that exist let alone how to forge paths into them.

And a book/film Eulogy Hillbilly Elegy about a boy who did better than his troubled background would have predicted, mainly because of the strength of character of his (gun-toting) grandmother.

I think part of it is lack of exposure. Growing up in a working class estate, most of my friends' fathers had manual jobs. My friends' mothers were all SAHMs. Some of the mothers went back to work when their DC got older but it was mostly minimum wage jobs e.g. office cleaning or shop work. My parents left school in their mid-teens. That was the norm at the time. Once the children reached a certain age, they were expected to get a job and bring money home to help the family. We knew that people could work as doctors, nurses, teachers etc. because we encountered these occupations in our daily lives, but it didn't occur to us that we could work as those things ourselves and it was never suggested to us as a possibility. We were oblivious to the existence of the legal profession or the world of high finance.

There was a lack of aspiration on the part of our teachers too. Looking back, I'm disappointed that their expectations for us were so low, especially given that they had been to university themselves. I think they thought that if we managed to avoid the pitfalls of drugs, crime, a teenage pregnancy or unemployment, we'd be doing well for ourselves. Girls were encouraged to pursue careers as hairdressers, secretaries or bank clerks. After a few years, we'd get married, have kids and leave those jobs. The boys were steered towards apprenticeships (not such a bad option, actually).

My friend's older sister was very bright and achieved extremely high grades in her Leaving Cert. exams. She could have had her choice of college courses. But her widowed DF wanted her to leave school and get a job so she could start to earn money and be less dependent on him. So that was that. I'm not sure if he understood that she could get college grants which would have paid for her college fees and given her some maintenance. Or if that knowledge would have made any difference.

There are so many unintended barriers. Space to do homework, limited role models In the community, a focus on survival over looking forwards in the family - the list goes on. It’s so much harder when you don’t have money. No doubt.

But you sound a great parent and there are things you can try to get them thinking more broadly about the future.

At secondary school encourage them to attend EVERY careers speaker that comes to school even if it is just to dismiss the idea. It will open up suggestions of jobs

Encourage them to aim for university but if finances make that a frightening prospect then make sure they are aware of all the amazing apprentice opportunities that are out there now. Degree apprenticeships are a fantastic option to earn while you learn.

Can you find them a mentor? Your school may be aware of a local mentoring scheme - that may be helpful

Just a few suggestions, but I hope this helps a bit.

Hi OP, I think that what is known as 'sense of entitlement' is a big factor.

I spent a few years teaching at Cambridge University and could observe the differences in how students from different economic brackets - albeit, at my hopelessly 'posh' college, very few from really modest backgrounds - approached the opportunities offered there.

There is a sort of feedback loop between what you consider yourself entitled to and capable of, and what others think of can do. It is signaled partly through all those markers large and small that come under 'cultural capital'; that really is very important ime.

There is very little correlation b/w intrinsic ability and sense of entitlement, but a very close correlation b/w cultural capital and how much your parents could afford to pay for your education. It's all hideously unfair.

But in terms of what you can do - it sounds cliched, but encourage curiosity, encourage questioning, try to identify specific interests your kids have and encourage them to pursue them if at all affordable. Could be anything - my oldest daughter just went on a weekend counting bats in old bunkers for a tenner (not in the UK). But above all else, teach them to trust and stick up for themselves, without getting flustered.