Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I grew up in a very poor family. Without ever diminishing the value of their jobs - which they are and should be very proud of - my parents encouraged us to work hard so we didn’t ‘end up like them’.

They are both intelligent people who did have aspirations but had to emigrate because there were no opportunities or money in their home country. They went without so that we had access to as varied a range of activities as possible.

We went to free museums, took free music classes, were encouraged to read a lot, spent Sunday afternoons watching documentaries on TV. Grandad fought in WW2 so my dad discussed history with us from a very young age. Every summer we’d drive 4000 miles as my mum was a carer to my grandma for 3 months each year. On the way there and back, we’d talk about the different countries and cultures that we’d see, play about with all the languages.

I also had the privilege of growing up in Spain were extracurriculars are either free or very, very cheap. Free music education, free foreign languages, free sports, free art and ballet. Huge bursaries if you have high abilities, which in my family’s case paid for petrol to and from my training. I now work in the performing arts and 10+ years of training as a child came at the cost of less than 1k.

My parents also taught us how to use money wisely, and never said ‘we’re too poor for you to aspire to XYZ’. If there was no money for something, we were encouraged to work and save for it, if of age. I’m in my early 20s so this was definitely not the norm when I grew up, kids my generation already had this lovely sheltered life today’s youngsters have.

A variety of reasons.

Lack of role models
Parents who push towards work rather than studying or apprenticeships (with low wages)
Poor schools
Peer pressure to under achieve
No access to the soft skills learned by cultural visits etc
Lack of work experience opportunities (or different ones)
Not able to do internships aka work for free

There's lots more of course but not everything is actually money related, a lot is about expectations and relationships. My kids attended a school in special measures but they acquired the soft skills eg museums, classical music, mixing with different people etc and we had high expectations.

@Nopeihavenoidea

I am wc and was the first in my family to go to Uni. While my family were supportive I did have to put up with a lot of bullying from people I grew up for for getting above myself. I knew I wanted to get away so keep going but can see why a lot of people stay where they are - they have friends/family etc around them. I am now (I suppose) well off but still have to occasionally put up with not fitting in - too well off to be WC, not MC when growing up so judged by some as beneath them. I have a chip on my shoulder about never being good enough.

We are saving up so our DC will not have to take out loans to get through Uni & to give them a deposit for their first house.

You'll be much better off giving them the savings for an even bigger house deposit rather than trying to ensure they don't need a student loan - much better use of the capital.

In the 90s I worked in HIV palliative care in central London, many patients ( gay men) were very successful professionally . On occasions when I got to meet their parents I was often struck at the distance in social class between son and parents. These guys had left their origins behind probably knowing they would never fit into the provincial, working class mould, come to London and really excelled. The “ push factor” to get away from a culture which wouldn’t have accepted them was obvious.

@Getoff

I remember seeing a teenage girl on TV who apparently wanted to be a hairdresser, and feeling despair on her behalf. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong with being hairdresser, but because I had a feeling that her idea of available jobs were ones she'd seen women doing, so she was choosing between hairdresser, shop worker, nurse and teacher, and was oblivious to the rest.

If she was already a teenager it's possible she already had an idea of her strengths and weaknesses and knew she was good with her hands so hairdresser was a more realistic choice than nurse or teacher if she didn't see herself going to university.

I do encourage my kids and tell them that they can literally do any job within reason and get into any field they wanted to beith hard work and grit but I'm not sure that enough

Do you achieve what you want in life? Have you decided what kind of job you'd ideally like and then taken steps to make that happen? If not, then what you're saying to your kids is just words.

In primary you need to try and get into the Outstanding primary school.
Try to get them into the best secondary you can- dont just think they'll be fine at secondary.
If no good school where you live try and move into a good catchment.

This in itself lacks understanding of how little agency many poorer people have to make these kinds of choices. If you live in social housing because you can’t afford to own your own home, you simply can’t just move into a good school catchment.

This is a recognised thing in Australia too.
Where we live is a generally low socio-economic demographic - lots of poorer families, many who have lived in the same town for generations and have no aspiration to leave, and lots of "problems". The children then absorb from their home environment the lack of ambition, of just doing enough, of low expectations.
Not all! Some will want more, and will try to push to achieve - but they may lack support at home. Tall poppy syndrome is a thing here too - family reverse snobbery, where they don't like it if you try to "better yourself" and get "too big for your boots", or think you're "better than them". When you're fighting your family and background as well as external issues, it becomes extremely wearing. And so the family cycle continues - the children don't attain good standards, they don't achieve what they could have done with better support and they fall into the same patterns as the older members.

It's not just a UK thing.

It's well recognised by the schools that, for the children to do really well at school, they need the back-up at home. And a lot of the time they don't get it - not always deliberately but because the family don't even know how to support, what to do, what resources would help their child - and often can't afford resources anyway.

It's a very sad state of affairs.

The best advice I ever received - too late to be very helpful to me - was that if you're irreplaceable, you're unpromotable.
As with many people I've worked with, my working class roots and impostor syndrome cause me to over-deliver and there are few long-term rewards other than pride in a job well done for that.
A strong sense of entitlement is a big help in the corporate / managerial world. It's something you learn from those around you who can demonstrate the invisible stepping stones that separate a career from a succession of jobs.

@Lostinafjord

Maybe define high aspirations? Wealth isn't necessarily something to aspire to. Kindness, contentment, a joy in pursuing one's interests are more important in my view.

I agree, but being stuck in a job you hate from 16/18 to 68 isn't great either.

Don't bemoan your background. Tell them anything us possible with the right attitude. Focus on the positives, a decent education, loving home, praise for small achievements. It's the mindset each individual has and is nurtured (or not) by parents and family, which triggers ambition in young minds. Don't put limits on their dreams. The past CEO of Tesco was born and grew up on a council estate in Liverpool, son of a single parent mother.
That is just one example. A university education is not necessary and often a waste of years. An apprenticeship is a great idea. Earn while you learn. Trying different jobs for the right fit is one idea and having the ability to drive safely can open many job prospects.
It has little to do with background and everything to do with determination, even small steps put you ahead.
One of my children had a private education with a sheaf of accolades be and outstanding results, even accepted into MENSA at primary school. They are now on less than 1/3 if a younger sibling who left before 16th birthday as they were offered a permanent position in another part of the country and worked their way up. That sibling sat no GCSEs but now has internationally recognised qualifications 3 properties and what could be called an enviable lifestyle. They are still in the same line of work but different company, travels the world on expenses and meets many interesting individuals along the way.
Your children cannot see the end of the road as it has not been laid. Help them pave it with a healthy dose of hard work, ambition and encouragement.

I don't really know. I was the first person in my family to get GCSEs ended up with a Master's degree. My parents did not expect me to go to uni as it's just not something the family did. They also had very strong views on gender stereotypes so I ended up taking a lot of time out of school to care for my grandparents as education was seen as a hobby.

I worked hard because I never wanted to be in a position as an adult that I had been as a child, eating in the dark because we had run out of electric....the current news on cost of living is terrifying for me.

Malcom Gladwell covers some useful material and calls it a lack of practical intelligence - I recognise some of this in myself.

However, Chris Langan’s early life lacked the support and opportunity necessary to nurture and develop his gifts. Gladwell suggests that Christopher Langan’s family experiences failed to instill in him the practical intelligence needed for success. He didn’t know how to ask for what he wanted and get it.

He grew up in poverty and remembers owning a single outfit as a child and wearing shoes covered in holes. His stepfather was physically abusive, and even after Chris Langan seemed to have escaped his dismal life, arriving at Reed College, he experienced a series of setbacks. His lack of practical intelligence prevented him from overcoming the setbacks:

Setback #1: Although Chris Langan earned a full-ride scholarship to Reed, his mother neglected to sign the financial aid forms. [Continues]

www.shortform.com/blog/christopher-langan-outliers/

A good example of how taking free opportunities can change lives are the choristers- my Dc were choristers, not only was it free to attend unlike most clubs, they received a small stipend each term. The kids came from a mixture of backgrounds including the council estates, failing schools etc and they all have achieved so much, very different to their peers at their schools - their expectations were different because through the church they met people from much wider backgrounds than at home. It's just a small example of opportunities that exist for poorer families that I doubt many realise, no experience necessary!

@Mellowyellow222

I am in my forties and was raised by parents who had junior managerial positions.

My mum especially always tempered my ambitions. Always know your place - don’t get carried away, don’t make waves.

She was alienate very intimidated by educated people - and let people walk all over her and us.

I have done well - have a senior position and high income. She always puts me down - acts as if I am very junior - if I say something about work both she and my dad will talk about how I couldn’t possibly be expects to take decisions and manage people etc - that’s my bosses job!

I am a director with a few hundred staff!!

They just believe people should’ve get above themselves - I should live in a certain type of house and drive a certain type of car - nothing too expensive because how could I possibly afford that - I’m just a little girl!

Sounds like my mum. Things said to me on a semi-regular basis: "Don't go getting ideas above your station". "That's not for people like us". "Most people work very hard for very little, you should just be grateful".

I went to uni in the evenings while working full-time in my mid-late 20s. When I graduated she asked "so what was it you were studying? Oh I didn't think it was a degree".

Just demonstrated the complete lack of interest in me really!

@NuffSaidSam

Sometimes they're just not properly aware of the options. If you grow up and everyone you know has a low income job, you don't see being an investment banker or lawyer or a doctor as being possible for you. Children who grow up where everyone they know as this kind of job they just assume they will too, it doesn't cross their mind to work in Tesco or a care home. They're just programmed for academic and financial success from day one.

So in terms of helping you DC avoid this trap, make them aware of these possibilities. Talk about the options available to them. If you're in a position to introduce them to adults with a range of jobs, then do. Look out for opportunities for them and encourage them to take what is offered.

Definitely this imo.

I wouldn't say I was from a poor background, just a normal working class one, and I think the thing for me is that I just wasn't aware of what jobs were possible to have and in some case I wasn't aware that some jobs even existed.

It would never have crossed my mind that I could have been eg an architect or a solicitor, and I didn't even know that eg quantity surveyors, pre-sales consultants, cyber security analysts or actuarys even existed.

With university becoming such a personally expensive thing (and perhaps not really understanding the type of debt for poorer families), it's seen as even less appealing/viable than even 20 years ago. I taught in a very deprived area and we used to take our GSCE kids on 'raising aspiration' days at universities basically to give them some idea of what university is like and put the idea in their head that university is a possibility meant for them.

There's still a load of obstacles to going to university for poorer families, but one is simply that no one in their family went. They don't know anyone that went to uni. None of their friends are going. There's no expectation for them to go.

In other families, kids grow up with parents who went to uni, meet up with uni friends, maybe even visit their parents uni campus (I took my kids round my old campus a few years ago when we went to visit the city), talk about university not just as an option, but almost an expectation. The culture in your own home has a massive effect on children.

My son needs a tutor and specialist sen help to be in level playing field with his peers sometimes I can afford this , often not
Right now we are telling him he can be anything he wants but his ability level is 3 years behind, so reality. Is going to hit at some point
He wants to live in a mansion so we have mentioned owning a business and working hard.
Reality is though he will never own even a tiny flat or have more than basic wage my big aspirations for him is that he is happy with his life and finds love and good health

@ComtesseDeSpair

*In primary you need to try and get into the Outstanding primary school. Try to get them into the best secondary you can- dont just think they'll be fine at secondary. If no good school where you live try and move into a good catchment.*

This in itself lacks understanding of how little agency many poorer people have to make these kinds of choices. If you live in social housing because you can’t afford to own your own home, you simply can’t just move into a good school catchment.

It also doesn't help the problem at all, in fact makes it worse for everyone else. Housing needs to be mixed to begin with then everyone going to their closest school.

It's not necessarily about having lower aspirations; it's a mixture of not knowing what opportunities are open to you (or having a way to find out) and also potentially having far more financial or caring responsibilitie at a young age, so having to turn down other opportunities.

For example - my A level grades might, in theory, have got me into Oxbridge. But back then I had no idea how to apply, didn't know how to navigate the college application system (no internet then to research it on either!), couldn't afford the train tickets to go there for open days, didn't know how to do a personal statement that would've helped an application - etc etc. So I didn't apply and went to a local university instead. I know it's a bit different now, but back then, Oxford or Cambridge may as well have been the moon to people who grew up where I did.

I now know many people who did go through Oxbridge, and they all tend to have had either schools that helped them apply, or parents that did so. Nobody in my family or wider circle had been to university, so as much as they wanted to help, they struggled to. I distinctly remember my mum asking for help from my school in trying to choose a college, and they had no clue. Compare that to a public school where people apply all the time, and teachers possibly went through the system thenselves as well.

Then there's having to work. I had to work part time from being 16, and most people I know did too. That meant not being able to do a lot of the extra curricular stuff, the internships, the work experience etc that helps with a career later on. Working on a till at Tesco doesnt tend to look as good on a CV as having done work placements in the field you're interested in. And of course getting those work placements, especially ones in London, means knowing people in the field, having somewhere to stay, being able to afford the transport and so on.

I'm in a decent job now, and know a lot of people who went through Oxbridge. Lots of them genuinely have no clue that they're privileged to have not had to work during sixth form; to have not had childcare responsibilities for younger siblings at that age; to have had friends and family- or switched on schools - who could get them into decent work placements etc. They often think that if something is free to do, then it's available to all. Which is just not the case, sadly.

@CouldIhaveaword

Peer group. If your mates are going to uni to become lawyers or bankers, that's what you'll expect to do. It takes a strong person to see beyond the immediate circle and buck the trend.

I completely agree with this.

I come from a poor working class family but passed my 11+ and went to Grammar school. My parents were loving and encouraging but never saw university as something for me, however that was literally all my school talked about from day 1, and so I just accepted that was where I'd go and needed to work hard to get there.

I was lucky though in that although my parents struggled to pay for my school uniform, my Nan could afford to pay for it(not sure how, but she did).

I've never really got over the feeling of being the poorest person in the room though (but I guess that's another thread!).

I was also fortunate that I got a grant for university- tuition fees were introduced the following year so if I were a year younger, likely I'd never have gone!

I do now have a very good job and earn well in excess of 6-figures but if I'd not passed my 11+, I've no doubt my life would have been very different.

[I grew up in NI, so school system was / is different - hopefully the comprehensive system works better to support bright kids who don't have those role models or encouragement around them]

My primary school head teacher fought for me to go to Grammar school and it literally changed my life. I came from a tough working class environment and had no parental encouragement. At school I got a great education, was expected to get good grades and go on to uni and have a career. If people have high expectations on your behalf, it can work wonders on your own self belief. I’m a walking example of the ethos of social mobility that Grammar schools were built on (my kids live in a lovely area, have travelled widely and aspire to professional jobs). Now grammar schools are for the middle classes who pay private tutors to get their darling offspring in, knowing that if they don’t pass the 11plus they can afford to send them to private school. It makes me furious !

I can see it in my own family. My wealthy uncle and aunt have 4 children. They had lots of extra curricular activities, music, sport.etc. Lots of stimulating holidays each year, including skiing and trips to places relevant to school studies. He flew to Rome with his son when he was studying that topic in history. Access to best schools etc.
Another family group live in deprived area, worked hard and bought their own house but their children simply don't have the same experiences. It makes a huge difference

• if you're cold, hungry, you won't study well
• if you're stuck in a small property and sharing with several siblings or in B&B accommodation, you will struggle to find the quiet space needed to study
• if your parents didn't do very well at school, they will probably struggle to help you move forwards when you find something difficult
• if your parents had a shit time in school, they may deliberately avoid things like parents evenings because they feel so 'at sea' with it and will continue to struggle to help you move forwards
• if your parents are just getting by, they may see having aspirations as pointless because you will never acheive them so they will think they are being kinder, long term, if you understand you won't amount to anything more than minimum wage
• if your parents are unable to find the money for extra bus fare to attend events intended to increase your awareness and your aspirations, you never see what possibilities there are out there
• if you don't attend extra curricula classes, go to Scouts, dancing, horse-riding etc. then your world can be quite small and you don't meet with people who are different to you and who could support you in highering those aspirations and seeing the world in a different way
• if you are a carer from young, have a parent with a mental health problem/disability/alcoholism/addiction issues, your mind is very occupied before you even begin to try and put some knowledge into it (not just a poverty thing, I know)
• if you grow up around domestic violence, you are also very preoccupied and worried (also not just a poverty thing).

There is alot going on in people's lives that we frequently know nothing about. We need, as a society, to work harder (much, much harder) at recoginsing that we need everyone to be able to successfully function as a whole society. It is OK to want to clean or be a barista or amount to being 'just' a hairdresser. We need to ensure our children don't grow up in abject poverty in damp, unpleasant living conditions and that we don't make the lives of single parents and those with disabilities so hard that they stay in unsuccessful relationships for status and meaning. We need to stop blaming benefit claimants (I am one - a single parent, full time teacher, still in receipt of tax credits, for example) for claiming what they're entitled to, to stop looking down on others because they don't have quite as much as we do. We all have a place in a functioning society and aspiration doesn't have to always mean aspiring to be the biggest, best, richest. It can be about peace of mind, living a simple life, acheiving team leader status rather than CEO status. I think a lot of people would be happier if they were able to admit they were happy with their lot and not be forced to look for something better.

"In other families, kids grow up with parents who went to uni, meet up with uni friends, maybe even visit their parents uni campus (I took my kids round my old campus a few years ago when we went to visit the city), talk about university not just as an option, but almost an expectation. The culture in your own home has a massive effect on children."

Someone asked if my brothers were at university age and were visible shocked when I said they didn't go. They probably weren't friends with anyone who didn't.
On the other hand, it was clear to me from a young age that I was expected to go, but there was never any clear advice about what to study and what to do afterwards. MNers always think this is obvious, but it's really not.
I now do a job I could have done with just a few GCSEs.