Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

The blaming people for not trying hard enough is a shitty thing to do. People do try bloody hard. Just some are carrying the load of several disadvantages and are have more ground to make up.

BlackeyedSusan you can read online FGS there is loads of free stuff. You can ask a friend to pick stuff up for you if they are going to the library. Even when life is not on your side, where there is a will there is a way. It is good to show your children you can overcome obstacles through sheer determination and bloody mindedness.

There have been times in my life where I picked stuff including food out of skips.

Your friends are even less likely to be going to the library.

I don’t tell my kids they should do whatever is their passion. I ask them to consider what type of lifestyle they would like to lead and work backwards. What salary would afford that lifestyle? What jobs have that salary and how much competition is there to get that job? Within those jobs, which suits them most? In general, if they work harder as a child and attain better grades, the more choice they will have as an adult. This would be true of vocational and academic routes (though my culture tends to emphasise academic success).

I think carers and nursery workers should be paid better - but neither I nor my kids can change that - so if they would like to have a reasonable income, I would advise against these jobs (unless they have already saved a lot of money).

WC people drive too... I think some people think WC and immediately think poverty stricken. I acknowledge that it might be trickier to get to but really it's not classist to suggest a library trip. The libaries in my area are enjoyed by MC and WC people.

I think the title should be some people because it sounds like you’re accusing everyone from a poor background of having no aspirations.

It’s mostly to do with how they’re raised. If their parents don’t value education and things like reading then they inevitably won’t either. Monkey see monkey do. It’s rare to break completely free of your parents, most people are like at least one of them in some way. Schools can only do so much, if they aren’t being supported at home chances are they won’t flourish.

Education is huge factor as is your peer. I am from working class background but passed 11 plus and went to grammar school where there was the assumption that you would go to uni. I was first in family to go to uni and then got a very well paid job which I didn’t even know existed when I was young. You need to broaden their circle as much as possible - extra curricular classes like drama are great for confidence, encourage friendships with children who want to do well in school and not mess about. My children are only very young but already talk about going to uni and what type of jobs they want when older.

You might think car ownership is odd for people just getting by but rural people who want to work often have to get to the next village or town to work. Often the bus services are so shitty they're not worth using.

@Noisyneighneigh

WC people drive too... I think some people think WC and immediately think poverty stricken. I acknowledge that it might be trickier to get to but really it's not classist to suggest a library trip. The libaries in my area are enjoyed by MC and WC people.

When my kids were little both dh and I drove but our car was used solely by dh in the day for him to get to work. I only got a car when I went back to work and had use of a company car.

@Tigersonvaseline

Low aspirations is definitely a thing.

However my own personal experience is that now primary school don't assist children with the 11 + it's kicked away the ladder for DC whose parents can't help them

But Sen is an absolutely massive issue.

Barely literate People having DC who inherit the dyslexia or whatever and school can't spot it, diagnosis , help because teachers have no Sen training.
Senco often no nothing about Sen.
It's a dead end.
School becomes a place of misunderstanding, boredom and crushing self esteem.

We must get basic Sen training into pgce.
Senco must get level 5 training in strategies to help the DC.

If a child exposed to phonics still can't read by end of year 1. You need to be flexible and change tack.

Wow. Lack of SEN training would explain why DSD was left to languish during her early primary years. And is still languishing with math. And why a teacher friend of mine tried to tell me there's no such thing as dyslexia.

It kind of feels deliberate after a while...

Yes Icouldsleep, apparently ds was choosing to have sensory autistic shutdowns and the only way to deal with them was a detention.

I grew up very poor and I pulled myself up but took me into my twenties to work a lot of this out. At school you're encouraged to do what you enjoy and pursue a career in what you are good at! I really wanted to be rich but I never said this - assumed wealth came as a reward if I was "good" at my profession. I think quite a British mentality is that being rich is in some what either "luck" or generational as opposed to the American dream type anyone can achieve anything. As someone else said on here - everyone is aware of Drs or lawyers but not Chief Financial Officers. I was a whiz at Maths - I should have studied this and got a job in the City - that would have played to my strengths and been a good route to wealth. I think the best thing you can do is help your children to understand about different jobs / career paths and opportunities to start their own businesses and try to find ways for them to meet people like this. When they're teenagers they could connect with people on Linkedin and ask to talk to them.
The dream is to get a career or business which is something you love and an area of strength but also lucrative.

@ShineTogether
“I now mentor secondary school students in a deprived area via a charity to attempt to pass the ladder down in some way.“

That seems a really good idea. Is it helping?

I also think people should ask friends’ parents in various professions for work experience if at all possible, or ask school to organise this. Lots of people would want to help if they could.

" it's been very noticeable when going round to other kids' houses for parties and when househunting that many homes don't have any books around at all."

I was shocked when a colleague with four children said they didn't have a dictionary at home, but I thought a bit more about it and realised children these days look things up online. I've also gotten rid of a few of my dictionaries.

@Gwenhwyfar

" it's been very noticeable when going round to other kids' houses for parties and when househunting that many homes don't have any books around at all."

I was shocked when a colleague with four children said they didn't have a dictionary at home, but I thought a bit more about it and realised children these days look things up online. I've also gotten rid of a few of my dictionaries.

And considering that so many people now buy ebooks for their Kindle, that’s a bit like being surprised that so many homes you viewed were without a hifi system or a laundry mangle or a fixed point telephone or a VCR. It’s all redundant technology. MNers are very fond of displaying physical books so as everyone can see an apparent marker of them being educated and middle class, but not owning books made of paper is no more an indication that somebody doesn’t read than them not owning vinyl records is an indication they don’t listen to music.

Vivian nailed it
"immediate gratification Vs investment.

If you grow up with little certainty about the future, you grab the little you can asap.

Being able to give up pleasures in the belief that you'll get more later involves believing in that future and even considering the future.

It's a mindset that is part of culture and education."

Yes it is mindset more than anything I think. I work with kids who are up against all the odds, living beneath the poverty line, parents not been to college and what I see is the kids who still do well from this demographic, develop that mindset of understanding they will have to delay gratification and many young people do not want to do that- let's face it many adults don't want to either which is why they borrow money to get the things they want today rather than save up for them.

The culture of the family is very important too and the parents often help kids develop that mindset but it can come from the child too. If kids are on screens constantly, they are not learning other things which help them develop that mindset that leads to success.
My husband was raised in poverty, addiction, terrible feckless uninvolved dad, mother with mental health issues so his schooling was interrupted and he got only a few gcses.

BUT he says he remembers making the decision he would have a great life and none of these circumstances were his fault. He knew there was another way of living life despite not living that life as a child. He is now 'more successful' than the average person as our society seems to measure it and earns in the top %5 but he tells me when you are poor you NEVER delay gratification because the money you have in your hand you may not have tomorrow so you spend it all fast and take the pleasure today to ease the hardness of life.

He had to learn to delay gratification with spending money and I still see that tendency in him but he is intelligent, willing to work hard but crucially he said he knew there was a better life possible and he would carve that out for himself. Mindset is everything and your family helps you develop it but some of it comes from you-and not everyone can generate the will to work hard, delay gratification, move far away from close family to pursue job opportunities. There is truth in so many of these posts but even if everyone was given the same start in life, not everyone wants to work 50-70 hours a week through their 20s and 30s, giving up time off to relax and have fun, so not everyone ends up with the same life circumstances. I say this not underestimating the tougher obstacles that children who are less privileged, or not white face - that stuff makes everything harder but people can overcome this disadvantage, but it takes a lot from them individually, hard work and some sheer luck of being in the right kind of job that pays a higher than average salary. Class/wealth, family culture, mindset, but I think mindset may trump them all. If you develop that you give yourself an ACE card in this unfair game of life.

Plenty of people do delay gratification. Saving up all year so their kids can have a good Christmas. It is simply that what they got for the gratification is normal life to you, so you do not recognise it.

I would say that it is a much longer-term delay of gratification that is required so it may be that you put off ordinary pleasure that may come with a 3 hour a week job that allows you plenty of downtime right through your twenties and thirties to devote your time to a career and getting educated to a higher level. A lot of people are simply not willing to do that or they just can't get to the point where they can see how that could work out for them since no one around them does that. Saving up for Christmas is low-level delay of gratification in my book because Christmas comes every year.

To get successful careers people figuratively give up Christmas every day for years in the free time they sacrifice to pursue work that may not always be particularly rewarding. I am not saying that this is what people should do, but it is what I see people do who have very successful careers mostly.
Having a good Christmas for your kids is in my observation a much higher priority of the working class and I understand why- for many it is the cherry on the sugarless cake of working minimum wage in repetitive jobs all year. The middle class unapologetically get Isabella a pure wool jumper and some books and a satsuma for Christmas because their lives are much easier year round, so Christmas is not this fill your boots with as much pleasure as you can before the grind starts again in January. Delaying gratification is a decades long undertaking and many simply want to eat dessert first when they get the chance, understandably.

37 hour a week job that should be-3 hours would certainly allow us ample free time.

@ComtesseDeSpair
“ MNers are very fond of displaying physical books so as everyone can see an apparent marker of them being educated and middle class”
Do you really think that they have books so people can see them as being educated, rather than because some people like books a lot?

@Monopolyiscrap

Plenty of people do delay gratification. Saving up all year so their kids can have a good Christmas. It is simply that what they got for the gratification is normal life to you, so you do not recognise it.

Yes this. Poverty is just one permanent exercise in delayed gratification as far as I can see.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@ComtesseDeSpair
“ MNers are very fond of displaying physical books so as everyone can see an apparent marker of them being educated and middle class”
Do you really think that they have books so people can see them as being educated, rather than because some people like books a lot?[/quote]
Yes. It’s called a Kindle. Plus who honestly, genuinely keeps a whole bookcase of books that they read over and over?

@Comefromaway. Well everyone's circumstances are going to be slightly different. My point was that it's not insanely privileged to suggest people go the library. Obviously it might be easier for an urban person on a limited income to visit the library than a rural one. The library in one of the most deprived areas of my city is very well used.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@ComtesseDeSpair
“ MNers are very fond of displaying physical books so as everyone can see an apparent marker of them being educated and middle class”
Do you really think that they have books so people can see them as being educated, rather than because some people like books a lot?[/quote]
Yes. There have been plentiful threads where many posters claim it simply isn’t the same thing to have books on your Kindle as it is to have books in your house. So the ownership of books clearly isn’t simply about being a reader, or being interested in certain subjects, but having a physical marker of those things on display.

@Cheekypeach I do. And quite a lot of my friends and family. We swap them between ourselves too (ds2 is now reading his way through all my Terry Pratchett books, ds1 is reading dh's tedious ancient copy of The Silmarillion). Don't have a kindle myself, prefer audiobooks if I'm not going to have a physical copy.