Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I grew up on a northern council estate. You know the ones where family's from generations remain there, everyone knows everyone etc.
when I said I wanted to do a levels at college I was sneered at by my own mother! All the comments "oooooo you are getting abit ahead of yourself" you know those sort of comments!

It really put me off so I didn't go college, parents were always "we just want you to be happy" but they never explained to me or took interest in my interests.
I even purchased croissants from Tesco once on my way home from my shop job and got greeted with "Croissants? Who do you think you are?"
I was fed up with how depressing life was, everyone suffering mental health issues and same day to day life

At 18, I moved to London with my shop savings, rented a spare room and went to college, it took me 4 years to finish college education because my motivation and discipline was not instilled in me for a long time! So I kept stopping and starting, I will let you all know a secret on what motivated me.

I signed up to a seeking arrangement website, I ended up having a date with a top city lawyer. He has become a life long friend, he told me to deactivate the website to not "lower myself" and he will become my mentor. He treated me and showed me the city life for NOTHING! it really motivated me. His daughter passed away so I think we both saw each other as father/daughter figures.
I finished college and went to uni to study law.
I finished and got a great job in the legal world
I'm doing really well.
People from back home laugh and make jokes like "who do you think you are" "oh you think you're so good in London don't you!"

So I can first hand talk about my experience.
Damn before I came to London I didn't even know what "classics" were.

However my Indian colleagues/friends in London who come from poorer backgrounds excelled because their parents pushed them to and put academic importance first and instilled it into them! That's the difference I think.

@greyeyes sounds like something out of pretty woman I hope you’re paying it forward and offering to mentor someone yourself

There are lots of good and interesting points on this thread and greayeyes' is interesting - mentors make a huge difference to teenagers. I was reading a novel based in my mother's native Ryhope which I bought recently (mining village NE England) and that certainly set in about 1918 reminds me of how those communities were cut off - the girls is even excited seeing Binns (department store) and the first time she sees a City like Durham. It is only fiction but it certainly describes well that difference (as does Tuppence to cross the Mersey as until she was 10 that girl (that one is true) was in a well off family but then suddenly in dire poverty without even a bar of soap.

London is a bit different from some areas as there are examples of successful people around you and lots of people who may not be that well off but their immigrant families were successful and well educated before coming here (not all but a good few) so they pass that work ethic and knowledge that being a doctor and lawyer might be a good idea.

I also note the point someone made above that we need people in jobs which are low paid and many people could easily do but that does not mean people should limit the ambitions of their children to those jobs. Yes we probably do need mother Theresas to was the feet of the old etc but that does not need to be your child unless they really want to - let them instead be the UK's leading doctor in old age care if they want to help the elderly or the leading barrister litigating the rights of the old on £500,000 a year.

Bloody hell. I think parents just getting by still manage a library trip with their kids!

Sorry that was @BlackeyedSusan

@rambleonplease

By making sure children aren't locked out of education due to special education needs.

To do that all teachers and And ta must get basic training in Sen and what to spot. then properly trained senco needs to have stragies at hand on how to assist those DC.

Then be able too support Parents work as a team...on getting that child education!

How many iltereate people end up in prison!!

I'm from a poor single parent background. My Dad was involved, but likes to live very simply and my mother worked a lot of hours and was more into the idea of me doing something creative rather than being 'forced' to be academic like she was by her parents. I was lacking in guidance and a bit of pressure, despite having a loving family. They left me to my own devices with GCSE's, so I didn't do as well as I could have done and they had no expectations of me beyond that.

Being poor and not having the guidance and role models I needed set me back a lot. I lacked a lot of confidence and didn't really know how to get a good career if you see what mean? I was quite lost. It was only after my partner at the time helped me into a decentish job encouraged me to study that I realised I didn't have to do low skilled work all my life.

Both my parents work bloody hard though, even though they are not well paid, so they did set a great example there. I think it's a case of having someone believe in you as a child who shows you what opportunities are out there and to mentor you through the process. I plan to do it a bit more with my own kids, but it was hard for my parents to do it with me as they were separated and worked so much.

@Noisyneighneigh

Bloody hell. I think parents just getting by still manage a library trip with their kids!

Actually, no they often don't. If you can find a library that is still open then parents may either be working during the opening hours or may not be able to afford the time/money of a bus trip to get there.

@greyeyes

I grew up on a northern council estate. You know the ones where family's from generations remain there, everyone knows everyone etc. when I said I wanted to do a levels at college I was sneered at by my own mother! All the comments "oooooo you are getting abit ahead of yourself" you know those sort of comments!

It really put me off so I didn't go college, parents were always "we just want you to be happy" but they never explained to me or took interest in my interests.
I even purchased croissants from Tesco once on my way home from my shop job and got greeted with "Croissants? Who do you think you are?"
I was fed up with how depressing life was, everyone suffering mental health issues and same day to day life

At 18, I moved to London with my shop savings, rented a spare room and went to college, it took me 4 years to finish college education because my motivation and discipline was not instilled in me for a long time! So I kept stopping and starting, I will let you all know a secret on what motivated me.

I signed up to a seeking arrangement website, I ended up having a date with a top city lawyer. He has become a life long friend, he told me to deactivate the website to not "lower myself" and he will become my mentor. He treated me and showed me the city life for NOTHING! it really motivated me. His daughter passed away so I think we both saw each other as father/daughter figures.
I finished college and went to uni to study law.
I finished and got a great job in the legal world
I'm doing really well.
People from back home laugh and make jokes like "who do you think you are" "oh you think you're so good in London don't you!"

So I can first hand talk about my experience.
Damn before I came to London I didn't even know what "classics" were.

However my Indian colleagues/friends in London who come from poorer backgrounds excelled because their parents pushed them to and put academic importance first and instilled it into them! That's the difference I think.

That’s a really interesting experience. Yet another good example of how some people will never get out of low aspiration mindset while others own their own drive. Some people will hide behind the working class facade that they are ‘real’ and ‘family oriented’. What they really are is lazy in their thinking and wanting a life handed to them on a plate without improving their chances.

@Butteryflakycrust83

Because we cant all have that lifestyle/those jobs?

I come from a working class family. I was the odd one out, the first one ever to go to uni, to work in the city, to work in a creative field.

And yet all my cousins, who married and had kids young, did not go to college, work blue collar jobs etc, all managed to get mortgages earlier on, are able to live close to each other and retain family support, maintain friendships from school etc. All happy with their lot.

I wonder if this is still possible now? For me the question isn’t status or respect (obviously someone has to do the ‘min wage’ jobs) but is it enough to live on?

In the days of a postman being able to afford a house and support a family of 4 maybe, but now?

@greyeyes that’s a lovely story!

Although…that implies that other women there are low rung themselves…

@sanbeiji

Although…that implies that other women there are low rung themselves…

I didn't consider it lowering myself as I was trying to be smart, gain contacts, insight in a better life etc but I think I got quite lucky that my first experience of meeting a man who was genuine. Some are not so lucky.

[quote Tigersonvaseline]@rambleonplease

By making sure children aren't locked out of education due to special education needs.[/quote]
That's one aspect for sure. Would help if they incorporated SEN training in all teaching training courses. It explains the wide range of experiences of people I know who have a child with SEN.

There are so many layers to it. Stories here of people who had to choose college or low paid jobs as their parents needed the extra income. It really makes it so apparent how stark different peoples experiences can be.

@TheMoth

I fear that uni is going to price a lot of kids out again. I was first in my family to go. Late 90s. Dh left school at 18. We earn about 70 between us , before tax, which puts us on paper, in a very fortunate position. But the mortgage and bills take most of it, so there will be nothing left to help dc with uni. Which means they well end up not going. I know it's not the be all and end all, but it does seem odd that I was in a better position 25 years ago, with much poorer parents.

I'm in a similar position to you (but went to uni in the 00's just before the massive hike in fees) and our rent and childcare take much of our income, so we would not be in a position to help DC's. Eldest (7) is very bright, so it might be something we need to help with, however he has already cottoned on to the fact that uni has only given me an average income, and that if he wants to earn well he should start a business instead of working for someone and be a wage slave. I'm glad he is seeing my own failings as a means to be ambitious, unlike my own experience with my folks where I couldn't see myself doing something beyond what my parents did. It's sad to think that if he does change his mind and want to study further we will have to tell him to carefully weigh up his options to see if it is worth the expense, rather than just seeing it as a given like more wealthier children do.

I also note the point someone made above that we need people in jobs which are low paid and many people could easily do but that does not mean people should limit the ambitions of their children to those jobs. Yes we probably do need mother Theresas to was the feet of the old etc but that does not need to be your child unless they really want to - let them instead be the UK's leading doctor in old age care if they want to help the elderly or the leading barrister litigating the rights of the old on £500,000 a year.

I agree with the sentiment, and I personally don't think I limit the ambition of my DC, in fact rather the opposite in that I don't want her to have to struggle financially like I have and face the negativity and judgement because of the job I do.
What I'd prefer is that if she chose to be the same as me, she was regarded and respected as much as if she chose to be an elderly care consultant.

There's not much point in having a hundred elderly care consultants in a hospital without the people there to actually put their decisions based on their training/education into practice. Both are equally important in delivering the actual service - but one is aspiring, respected and paid well and the other is uninspired (or lazy depending on your terminology) and poorly respected and poorly paid.
I'm not advocating for 6 figure salaries for everyone, that can't happen, but it should be enough to have a decent life on, and there shouldn't be negative judgement because someone is happy at that level, in the same way that there shouldn't be negative judgement if someone isn't happy at that level and wants to advance.

@Tigersonvaseline

To do that all teachers and And ta must get basic training in Sen and what to spot. then properly trained senco needs to have stragies at hand on how to assist those DC.

Then be able too support Parents work as a team...on getting that child education!

How many iltereate people end up in prison!!

I'm confused by these posts. I trained as a teacher 20 years ago, and we had SEN training then. We regularly have SEN cpd now and we regularly refer students. SENCOs,at least in secondary, need post graduate training.

That’s a really interesting experience. Yet another good example of how some people will never get out of low aspiration mindset while others own their own drive. Some people will hide behind the working class facade that they are ‘real’ and ‘family oriented’. What they really are is lazy in their thinking and wanting a life handed to them on a plate without improving their chances
Ouch.

Social Mobility is very low right now so yes please do everything you can because the government sure as hell aren't interested in investing to help.
'Education, education, education' as someone else said - this is not just schools job, you need to make it your mission to get them to the top of the class.
Peer group - their friends should be the smart ones (kind is more important but hanging out with the smart ones will push them to achieve an academically higher standard). So encourage those friendships too. Playdates - get to know those parents.

Peer group is a massive one - if their friends parents are all on UC, or low income careers then that will be what their friends think they can achieve and in turn what your children can relate to achieving. (This has come out in my writing wrong, I don't know how else to word it but please don't think I look down on anyone of these people - I don't, I am just trying to show how you change the expectation.) If you can move and have them in a school with a higher socioeconomic status (even if where you live is smaller) it'll make a massive difference to their chances going to school with people whose parents have 'made it' because then the expectations of themselves aligns with their peer group to also make it.

You have said when you walk up through the expensive houses it seems like a different world - I know this sounds weird but don't convey that to your kids. These people living in these nice houses shouldn't be cast as 'other' - your kids are less likely to relate to them. It isn't about aspiring high, it is about that house, that level of money being the social norm/expectation to achieve it makes it more likely. Aspiring can make it feel harder to reach and easier to give up. I don't fully know how to achieve this by the way - I don't have all the answers but I would cast them more as just normal people...

Also you said you encourage them they can get any job they want 'within reason' - what does 'within reason' mean? If their goal is to be an astronaut - don't squash the dream. If they genuinely go for it hell for leather and 'fail' (it is statistically very unlikely to achieve) then they have still come out of uni with a kick ass degree and a set of academic skills to set them up with a great career. Encourage everything - even outside of statistical likelihood!

Great post OP

Telling your child they can do anything is a bit hopeless, you have to impress on them the importance of hard work and help them seek out opportunities, push them to push themselves. Physically and mentally instil discipline, then allow them to achieve.

With small children literally everything is a learning opportunity, mealtimes, a trip to the woods, a walk to the shops and reading to your children and getting them to read is a really good way to get them off to a good start. I they want to watch TV don't just be happy with paw patrol, allow them to watch something better with an educational angle

“@SuitcaseOfWhine
It's sad to think that if he does change his mind and want to study further we will have to tell him to carefully weigh up his options to see if it is worth the expense, rather than just seeing it as a given like more wealthier children do.“

Even if it is difficult £70000 between you is wealthier than some whose children are going to university.

I was from a poor background.
Was always determined to get out. Had some vague idea that it would involve being in London. I knew from an early age that I wouldn't stay where I started.

I was really really unhappy at home, at school, in friendship groups where I was bullied. I didn't fit in where I was. This played a big part in my attitude I think.

One of my childhood best friends, who was in a similar situation, gave me the brainwave to be a lawyer. It would never have occurred to me. But she pointed out that I was smart in school and if she had that going on, then she'd be a lawyer.
I wish I'd encouraged her to do the same, she was defo smart enough.

Maybe all people need is to have someone see their talents, and to be pointed or nudged in a direction. I now mentor secondary school students in a deprived area via a charity to attempt to pass the ladder down in some way.

If your library is a bus ride away, it costs too much.(there is no library where my ex lives) my local library is too far to walk when I am being too disabled. or DD is.

My local library is too busy for my autistic children to access at the weekend. Life is tough enough without dealing with autistic meltdowns in public. It is soul destroying.

If you are working all hours God sends to make ends meet there is no bloody time or energy. Nor if you are disabled. Being disabled often makes you poorer than you otherwise would have been.

If you struggle to read yourself you are not going to want to go. Or if English is not your first language.

If your library is full of people who are not like you you may feel out of place.

Getting the buggy down several flights of stairs as the lift has broken. Or there is no lift. (You have to carry baby and buggy and bag and hold onto a toddler down several flights of stairs) and worse, back up again.

Don't want to navigate the dog shit and vomit and broken glass (regular on my route to town) with the buggy when you have nowhere to clean the bloody thing if you live in a flat.

Not going out in the dark and needing to be home before dark. (Definitely don't go out after dark if can help it during October November)

There are lots of reasons why people might not want to/ can't get to the library.

It shows lack of imagination and a certain middle class judginess to not understand there are lots of barriers to accessing libraries, museums etc that you don't know about.

Should add that due to family breakdown I was self supporting, so LEA paid for uni. Then law firm paid for postgrad.