Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

@BetterLox

As a teacher, I can safely stereotype and say that when I send a reading book home, generally the children from better off families will have read it and discussed it at home. And children from very poor families will still have it sitting at the bottom of their school bag.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. But I do think that poorer families can be a bit more erratic and not put so much emphasis on children's school work.

It's quite common to have parents who physically won't come into school for parent evenings/engage with the school because they had such a terrible time at school and it takes them back.

It's also common for the parents to have such poor reading and writing skills - so presumably sitting down and reading a book with your child would be embarrassing and frustrating.

I'm more than happy to help them and actively go out of my way to do so. Often met with a poor response.

safely stereo type

@bexxboo

We all have the same 24 hours in a day....

We might all have 24 h , but don't kid yourself that they're the same.

@BetterLox

As a teacher, I can safely stereotype and say that when I send a reading book home, generally the children from better off families will have read it and discussed it at home. And children from very poor families will still have it sitting at the bottom of their school bag.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. But I do think that poorer families can be a bit more erratic and not put so much emphasis on children's school work.

It's quite common to have parents who physically won't come into school for parent evenings/engage with the school because they had such a terrible time at school and it takes them back.

It's also common for the parents to have such poor reading and writing skills - so presumably sitting down and reading a book with your child would be embarrassing and frustrating.

I'm more than happy to help them and actively go out of my way to do so. Often met with a poor response.

Do you have more well off kids, more poor kids or around the same numbers of both at your school?

We all have the same 24 hours in a day
We do have the same 24 hours, but I bet when you were 12 you didn't work after school every night because your family needed the money, or had no heating or hot water so your clothes were either dirty or damp all the time, or had to skip school when you had your period because you couldn't afford tampons and then got detention which you couldn't do because of work so you had to keep skipping school until they agreed to lunch time detentions, or had to quit school altogether when you were 14 because the council refused to pay for carers for a family member, and then when your family member died and you tried to get work you were refused every job you applied for, for years, because you didn't finish school but couldn't afford to take classes. It must be nice to be so protected for reality that you can talk crap like 'we all have the same 24 hours' and not be embarrassed.

@bexxboo

We all have the same 24 hours in a day....

Molly Mae is that you?

@worriedatthemoment I have enormous respect for teaching assistants and nursery workers. But they earn very low salaries. Nurseries could be supported by the state (my children went to a state run nursery anyway) so the wages would be topped up. At the moment we use tax credits to save huge companies from paying workers properly so we could just shift this and ensure public sector workers are better paid.

Unfortunately I think people with low aspirations often raise their children to have low aspirations and this gets passed on down the generations. It's not an easy pattern to break and attempts to break it often aren't popular with surrounding family and friends.

My best childhood friend and I have almost identical working class, very traditional backgrounds - except my parents pushed me hard (rightly or wrongly) and her parents were more "do what makes you happy but know your place". We're in our 50s now but still friends despite having VERY different lifestyles and outlooks. She lives 3 miles from the village where we grew up in a low paid job but is reasonably content with her lot. I've lived all over the world and earn 6 figures in the City. I'm probably the archetype "got ideas above my station".

However, we did nearly fall out a while ago when her brother asked my advice about his 16 year old daughter getting experience in animal care. (I'm quite an active volunteer in a small but highly regarded UK wildlife charity, and have done similar activities over the years). He proudly told me that she wants to be a vet's nurse. I replied "a vet's nurse? Why doesn't she want to be the vet???"

I never got an answer. It seems that a vet's nurse was as high up as his upbringing could possibly consider. The pinnacle perhaps (and I mean no disrespect to vet nurses - they are far better than me as I couldn't do their job). But it infuriated me. WHY NOT BE THE VET??! Another generation with a working class woman not encouraged to try to reach her potential. Apparently I am deviant with high fallutin' fancy ideas trying to get his daughter to have ideas above her station (just like I did 30+ years ago lol when I left the village and started gallivanting all over the globe...outrageous eh?!).

He doesn't speak to me these days. The daughter abandoned further study and went into the civil service and lives at home still. All very safe, none of it threatening, they're all "very proud" of her. Whereas I still quietly think she's another working class women who didn't get to make the choices she could have done if she'd had more open-minded people to guide her. It makes me sad.

For the teacher saying some parents engage less with reading. Do you understand there are structural reasons why this happens ? Working class parents may work shifts or do manual labour that leaves leaves very tired. They may be under severe stress from money worries or not have enough money to eat properly so they are tired. This nonsense about aspirations is just ignoring the brutal reality of how poverty causes stress that leads to less ability to move forward in life.

I have had the same comment on MN sometimes when I have suggested daughters aim to be doctors not nurses. People say we need nurses- what would we do if no one was a nurse? Of course I understand that but encouraging bright girls to go into medicine whatever their background is better in my view.

Hilarious!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sorry that was suppose to quote the Molly Mae is that you? Comment!

@Monopolyiscrap I agree 100%. If it weren’t for some tough years lately, I don’t think I would, and there’s plenty of people worse off than I am. And I know it’s temporary, which is a huge boost. I know money isn’t everything, but living on 12k a year has been pretty eye opening. There’s not much time, creative energy or headspace leftover to do anything but make the money stretch.

I think aspirations is the wrong concept. It’s more like horizons. The awareness that a career is real achievable opportunity, and an idea of what’s involved to get there. Like my careers advice post degree. There was probably plenty, it just never really occurred to me look at general schemes. I thought you had to pick a career, do more training and apply for jobs like teacher or solicitor. I didn’t know I could go and do generic graduate trainee stuff until I chatted to someone that had got one, and was merrily looking at renting a house in Putney with her BF, on three times my salary. She had it so together, because she did it all in February, and I never even thought about it until about May. Both her parents and older siblings had been through them, so she knew when to apply etc etc. I had no clue they even existed!

My point about immigrants, was that they are already the kind of people who go and find out how to do stuff, and they’re in an unfamiliar system, so they assume there’s stuff they don’t know and go and find out. Whereas people who are limited by their background are often doubly hampered by not even being conscious of the hobbles on their life-plans. They are so insidious.

@Xenia

I have had the same comment on MN sometimes when I have suggested daughters aim to be doctors not nurses. People say we need nurses- what would we do if no one was a nurse? Of course I understand that but encouraging bright girls to go into medicine whatever their background is better in my view.

I agree with you @Xenia. Why is it the working class daughters who are expected to be nurses and they aren't offered the option of being a doctor? Maybe they don't want to (or aren't bright enough) but they should know they could have the choice. Class divide AND sexism all rolled into one. That's a big hurdle to overcome.

I think everyone's ideas of low aspirations will be different.
I don't actually consider becoming a nurse or being self employed with your own trade as low aspirations. It takes skill and hard work and being a nurse requires a degree!
To me, low aspirations would be not even giving what job you want much thought, drifting from one thing to the next.
I.do think a lot of what's been said on this thread is right.
But I upped and left home, went off to uni, and have lived away from my family. I ended up in an abusive marriage which would have been so much easier to either avoid or leave if I'd have been living near mum, nan and aunty Joyce for example. I don't know if staying within 3 miles of where you were born and near family is necessarily a bad thing, and a large sector of society certainly don't think it is, and are quite happy in their so called low aspirational jobs with family around them.

@Yetanotherchange21

Of course there are generalizations here. On every thread. This is a discussion forum. Not a study group submitting an essay next week so need to find accurate citations and statistics. People are sharing their observations and experiences. So when a teacher says that parents from poorer families generally don’t take as much interest in their children’s education, that is the experience of an education professional. Unless you have gone out to survey every parent in the country and collected income information and then physically observed their behaviours, then why eye roll at what a teacher is telling you. Honestly, this place is sometimes bonkers.

@Xenia of course we need nurses. Absolutely nothing to stop men from becoming nurses.

@Jewel52

My primary school head teacher fought for me to go to Grammar school and it literally changed my life. I came from a tough working class environment and had no parental encouragement. At school I got a great education, was expected to get good grades and go on to uni and have a career. If people have high expectations on your behalf, it can work wonders on your own self belief. I’m a walking example of the ethos of social mobility that Grammar schools were built on (my kids live in a lovely area, have travelled widely and aspire to professional jobs). Now grammar schools are for the middle classes who pay private tutors to get their darling offspring in, knowing that if they don’t pass the 11plus they can afford to send them to private school. It makes me furious !

I'm just catching up with this thread. Out of interest, why does it make you furious that people want to get their children into grammar schools? What would you do in their shoes?

@MichaelAndEagle
“I don't know if staying within 3 miles of where you were born and near family is necessarily a bad thing, and a large sector of society certainly don't think it is, and are quite happy in their so called low aspirational jobs with family around them.“

Yes. It is a shame people are often separated from their families. It is a pity both ends can’t meet.

There are so many more opportunities in the south east no matter what your job.

Internships in London without family or friends where you can stay, and massive train fares if you get an interview are major barriers too.

@x2boys

I' live in a poorer area ,I myself trained as a nurse so I'm not uneducated and we have Doctors , solicitors,and a QC in my extended family ,with the best will in the world Ds1 is just not academic,I will be delighted if he manages a few grade fours in his GCSE,s ,he works hard but some people are never going to be academic ,I do encourage him and I want him to choose the best college course for him ,Mumsnet is obsessed with university,but it is not the be all and end all

This is a good point. There's only so much you can learn. I still rember from my high school friends who didn't study hardly but would get top marks.

You can also see if your child is quite quick at picking new things up.

Funny how nurse is seen as a low aspiration.

I don't know if staying within 3 miles of where you were born and near family is necessarily a bad thing, and a large sector of society certainly don't think it is, and are quite happy in their so called low aspirational jobs with family around them.

It's not necessarily a bad thing nor is it necessarily a good thing. But it is uninformed. It's not knowing, or worse, being fearful of what else might be out there. Maybe you live in the best place in the world, maybe with the best family in the world, maybe you'd hate being a doctor or a pilot or a dog groomer or whatever you might dream of being. But it's frequently the poor and the working classes who don't have the luxury of finding out and hence making an informed decision.

We laugh at the cheesy phrase "living my best life" but many people don't have a choice in it, they're living their only life. And not necessarily one they'd choose. Some people have been fortunate enough to never be in that position, some of us have been fortunate enough to drag ourselves out (and if we go back, it's through choice rather than necessity) but for some people this is all they know. And all their children will know.

I think it's being rich/well off makes it much easier to take calculated risks with your career. You can take on unpaid internships, you can live rent free (thus not having to work) whilst studying, you don't have that pressure to be earning in order to support other family members, you can easily afford tutoring if you need it or additional study aids.

Also one thing that I didn't learn until my thirties is that there's a difference between working hard and working smart. You can work hard for 20 hours a day but someone who has been shown what to do could earn more in 2 hours. I don't remember salary really being discussed when I was receiving career advice at school but it's certainly something that I'll ask my kids to consider. The job you should be aiming for isn't just in a field you enjoy - you should be considering what you enjoy, what you're actually good at and the lifestyle you want and that includes the salary you'd like to earn!

“ldontWanna

Funny how nurse is seen as a low aspiration.”

It isn’t really but the reason is that it used to be the case that girls who were easily clever enough to be doctors, and who would have been better than a lot of the doctors who were men, were steered towards nursing.

Poeple see themselves in jobs they are familiar with. If you grow up surrounded by people in lower paid jobs (or not in work at all) then you are likely to end up in a similar situation yourself.

The same goes for people in other socioeconomic groups too. The kids of doctors may well end up as doctors when they'd have been happier as electricians or tiling contractors.

Relatively few children grow up with an awareness that they could become an actuary, or a patent attorney, or a piping designers, but these are all well paid roles that could be great options for people with the right skillsets.

Partly it's probably because it's relatively rare for young people to stop, take stock and get good expert careers advice. Careers advisors in schools simply don't exist in the way they once did. Some university careers services are stronger (in my relatively recent experience) but that won't help if you never get there.

I agree with some PPs actually... Why do we all have to up sticks and move to the other end of the country at age 18? This doesn't happen in lots of other countries. I know, I know - it's our centralised economy and insane house prices. I did it too - but pay the price of having no local support network, no strong roots, and frankly feeling a bit alienated from the urban professional classes that I'm now surrounded by (have become?). It's not that I wanted to be "better" than the lower-middle-class provincial I am, or even to have a great career for the sake of a career; I just wanted to be able to afford a house and family. I'd rather be one of life's vetinerary nurses than one of life's vets (see PP a few posts above), if money was no object. There's more to life.