Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I agree. Also, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know - the rich help out their own, and so the cycle continues. Plus, those with money make more from investments etc so, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer

This is true in a work place I found myself in, think luxury sector.

The CEO was used to money and was paid obscenely. We were going to hire someone for an entry level role from the local college and had some good CVs. They ended up ignoring those and hiring someone without an interview whose very wealthy mum was a connection (in the hope they’d bring in business) 🤦‍♀️

Foe society to work we need people at all levels so some may see working at tescos as low aspiration or being a nursery nurse but most high flyers would need those services or similar so one can't be one without the other

I absolutely agree.
In addition to social mobility I also research womens career development. Unfortunately a high number of low paid jobs are also jobs which are female dominated.

I think low aspirations is perhaps the wrong phrase. Limited aspirations might be better.
I certainly felt that a lot of the kids I was at school with had very limited aspirations. In earnings terms by the standards of the times quite a lot of the jobs they went into (miner, docker etc) were quite good really so not low aspirations in monetary terms, and they were jobs that needed doing for the benefit of society, so not low in value terms either.
But, in my experience anyway, children from less privileged backgrounds get less choice and are less likely to consider a range of careers. The lads from our town who went down the pit weren't really choosing it - not in the same way as my children are now choosing their future paths anyway. They were doing it because it was what was available locally, was what their fathers, uncles, male cousins and probably grandfathers did and what they had been conditioned to see as a man's job since they were little boys.
They were not presented with the same range of options as children from more middle class backgrounds and nobody encouraged them to consider alternatives. I don't think too much has changed. If anything we are probably going backwards and the loss of a lot of traditional industries have probably made things worse.
It is a hugely complex issue and parental attitudes definitely do play a role. We should be able to acknowledge that in a non judgemental way because otherwise there is no hope of ever changing things. There are multiple reasons why a child may or may not reach their potential in adulthood, but to achieve anything, you have to want to. And to want something you first have to know that that option exists and believe it is open to you. To say that many children from less privileged backgrounds have limited aspirations is not judgement on them, it is a judgement on society.

I don't think uni education is geared for struggling but not on benefits families.
My wider family members dropped out because they couldn't afford to continue.
I cannot realistically get my head round how my own dc's can afford to go to uni.

Here's a recent example of reduced opportunity (of many I'm sure):

DS20 would like to academically study Ancient History, which is not the same as Classical History. Both subjects are GCSEs. Offered by many Private Schools in their options.

How many state schools offer Classical or Ancient History GCSEs? Not many. How many other interests and aspirations don't even get a chance because the opportunities to explore them don't even exist?

@SpinsForGin hopefully as all kids excel at something its just finding that thing sometimes takes time and the education system isn't for all wither and a one fits all curriculum isn't ideal either
You know on our average wages we are still expected to contribute a fair bit to ds to go to uni whilst someone on £500000 will only have to contribute a little bit more , so still a long way to go
We will sacrifice all we can to give him better chances than we had but maybe it shouldn't be quite so hard for some of us

[quote worriedatthemoment]@SpinsForGin hopefully as all kids excel at something its just finding that thing sometimes takes time and the education system isn't for all wither and a one fits all curriculum isn't ideal either
You know on our average wages we are still expected to contribute a fair bit to ds to go to uni whilst someone on £500000 will only have to contribute a little bit more , so still a long way to go
We will sacrifice all we can to give him better chances than we had but maybe it shouldn't be quite so hard for some of us [/quote]
The student finance system isn't fit for purpose.

I worked as a careers adviser for years and I've always been against pushing young people to make a decision about their future at 16. Some people need more time

We were not allowed to go to college or university. We had to bring money in from the age of 16 to top up what my mother was loosing in benefits

@SpinsForGin I know my job is considered admin so its paid at a lower level , its much more than admin really but then they would have to pay more and its mostly done by women
I think the costs of houses etc has just widened the gap further unfortunately

Because they are not exposed to the reality of high achievement. It has to be part of their daily life in order for it to seem obtainable, or even something they've heard of.

And it is as much to do with stereotypes in education resources as anything.

In NZ, Māori and Pasifika scientists, doctors and so on are deliberately used in education resources to help redress the balance which has been lacking pretty much forever.

Of course young people who grow up poor are also clever and capable, but god it's hard for them to catch a break. Especially if they are not white.

As someone raising children from a poorer background. My challenges are having time - I'm a full time working single parent - I'm not there as much as I should be to help with homework, take them to other activities. If you are in a high earning job you may be able to work fewer hours to earn the same as me and therefore be home for your children.
Finances - I have to save for longer to give my children experiences that may widen their horizons. I may not be able to pay for hobby stuff that will help them progress with their interests.
Knowledge - rich people have people around them (family?) to help them understand how to invest and improve there unearned income potential - ie buying property, investments, pensions etc. When you are living wage to wage having extra income is a dream.
I want my children to see their potential and understand how to reach it, but it isn't as easy without financial backing that richer people likely take for granted, simply because it's always been there. Decisions that are made by parents are different dependant on income. My daughter has a boyfriend from a richer background from us. He has gone skiing this half term. There is no way I could afford for her to go skiiing with them as I couldn't afford the clothing etc she would need. She is missing an experience she could have if I had more income. I feel bad for her, and this is a typical situation for those in poorer backgrounds. Aspiration may be there but ability to follow through with it isn't always a choice.

@SpinsForGin yes 16 is young i don't think my 18 year old who is going to uni still is fully sure
My 16 nearly 17 year old changes monthly although a services career def seems where he would excel
My dh was a chef but completed an apprenticeship at 28 to do a trade and has now worked his way to a mangers job and is well regarded at work, he was def a late bloomer

I love the fact that this is seen as the problem and fault of people in the lower end of the social spectrum. So many posters refer to 'lack of aspiration' or some special characteristics that those who are less privileged apparently lack, meaning those with all the luck, opportunities and wealth deserve it. Bullsh-t!

This country is so incredibly unequal and those on top are invested in keeping it so, deliberately excluding others to maintain the status quo.

I'm from the working classes and have had various struggles throughout my life, but have managed to end up in a reasonable situation with a comfortable life and an OK job, not struggling especially, which has enabled me to send my kids to a private school at times (several school changes). I have very often observed a hierarchy between private school children and parents, many of whom can sniff out the 'bursary family' a mile away and treat them accordingly, from freezing out the parent at the school gate to the child never being invited to play dates, being excluded from games, snubbed etc. Even some teachers see fit to pass comment and make jokes about your (clearly inferior) house as seen on camera during lockdown teaching or try to diagnose the excluded child with something to blame them for their unhappiness and low self esteem caused by bullying and being left out.

I always try to encourage and nag my children to do as well as they can at school and to aim for uni etc. We also expose them to plenty of high culture because that is what we are interested in, but still the difference between them and the children of the genuinely privileged really shows in confidence levels, opportunities, just stamina to cope with life really. When you have been 'firefighting' for a lot of your life you always worry about being just a step or two from the struggle you came from, and you get very discouraged by being cold-shouldered and excluded because you don't quite fit it. This communicates itself to your kids and no matter how hard you try they still absorb some of your weariness, apathy and anxiety.

And everything is more of a struggle for those at the bottom of the social pile. Privileged people don't have to think about the sort of things the working classes have to worry about; the privileged do each other favours, educational, social and job opportunities are passed on to family members and friends etc, but most do not deign to extend even the most common courtesy, let alone do a favour or include the less privileged in anything they do. They simply don't exist, except to do their cleaning, serving, caring etc.

So it's not because of low aspirations, it's because everything at lower levels is a constant struggle and because you get the door slammed in your face every day of your life.

@Tumbleweed101 I agree most of us on lower income still want the very best for our kids but its often harder to achieve

[quote worriedatthemoment]@SpinsForGin yes 16 is young i don't think my 18 year old who is going to uni still is fully sure
My 16 nearly 17 year old changes monthly although a services career def seems where he would excel
My dh was a chef but completed an apprenticeship at 28 to do a trade and has now worked his way to a mangers job and is well regarded at work, he was def a late bloomer [/quote]
Unfortunately the education system is structured around making a decision at 16 and then again at 18. Indecision is seen as problematic.

@sundayblu well said

@SpinsForGin yes it is mine were told to pick Something and they ended up just picking something they Enjoyed really
Although mine know about different jobs they don't know what they involve , the 1 week work experience in an estate agent doing the hoovering didn't help ds18 and the 16 year old had none due to covid , but he does have a part time job
The year out working for ds18 has been so good for him and really made him decide uni was for him after all, plus it will give him some money to make it easier and its shown him what he doesn't want at least

I remember reading that there was a lot more social mobility in the 50s and 60s due their being a plentiful supply of jobs and a degree of labour shortage. People could move from one job to another until they found one that suited them and then advance based on experience and training rather than qualifications.
This happened a lot in my extended family.
My Dad went from a council flat to medical school, his student grant was relatively generous a he always found good jobs every holiday, he managed to send money to his parents to help out.
Plentifu employment also meant people didn't slide down if they lost jobs so readily as they could find another.

I don't think they have lower aspirations research shows this is not the case. As a teacher, I believe, the problem is knowing how to make aspirations a reality not just a dream.

@sundayblu. I agree 100%. It's exhausting to have that feeling of not quite 'fitting in' or being two steps behind. Having to 'firefight' to achieve or understand things that others take for granted means that you're starting out already on the back foot.

@Cheekypeach

This is the part where MN pretends to care about working class people while propagating the notion that having a ‘chavvy’ name should preclude you from a job interview on the name threads.

There have been so many helpful posts on this thread, so many people sharing their experience of how they achieved against the odds precisely because they had high aspirations. And then you get a pointless, bitter post like this. It’s like some people don’t want to believe that aspiration can get you somewhere. They almost want poor people to fail because it justifies their bitter, inward looking views that you can let achieve anything unless your parents are rich. Feel sorry for the children of these parents.

You seem to be genuinely unsure despite being of that background yourself surely you know?

Put simply

Because they don't get the same support, encouragement and investment (both financially and in terms of emotional/practical sense) as those from better off backgrounds.

Also many more obstacles to overcome.

This cartoon is a good way of summing it up

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/j7v8Uhy

The level of inequality in this country at the moment is INSANE and denied by most of those who aren't the worst off.

It's also unnecessary but...we've had a pure tory govt for 10 years and haven't had even close to a socialist govt for over 40!

A change is desperately needed

Well absolutely - you'd never see the upper classes involved in parties, drugs or sex.

Well they're generally not held to be unsuccessful because of it!

Be there for your children.
Look through their school books and keep up with what they are doing, help with homework, but don't do it for them.
Ask open questions
Do you read to them? Books - you can never have enough. Charity shops if money is an issue. Libraries as they reopen.

As a career suggestion, the armed forces offer social mobility. They support and will help anyone who is keen to progress. In the navy over 30 per cent of officers joined an non commissioned. Consider cadets or scouts. Employers have a good idea that a former cadet and better still former armed forces has excellent timekeeping, dedication and self motivation.
Some good advice from many others. Good luck.

The thing is society can't function without people with "low" aspirations. It literally can't, so they are desperately needed. At the same time, society needs them to be low paid for costs reasons. So they need to exist and also be happy /accepting enough with a low wage and their lot in life. So they stay where they are.We're talking millions of people here, not a few thousands.

The same people that some look down on, consider unambitious, with low aspirations, low expectations, ridiculously low wages , low achievers were the ones that kept the country going during the pandemic in awful conditions.

Societies need cannon fodder. It's easy to sneer and roll your eyes and tut and tell them they "should've worked harder" while benefiting from the product of their labour in so many ways.