Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

And as an adult, I have heard teachers in social situations state stereotypes about working-class parents not caring about education or not supporting their kids. It makes me so bloody angry. But easier to blame parents than the system.

@feb21 and of all the Poor / working class parents I know not many don't say and encourage this for their children
My friends who are ok financially prob middle class ds cannot pass english or maths and is now doing the lower level at college but he has a part time job in a local fast food place which he loves and is already working his way up
Maybe its just that we all need to find our vocation
We have always said to our boys try hard , do your best etc but also made it clear that if needed gcse can be retaken , if health is suffering
Mine both passed all with average grades and have gone to college but ds18 couldn't go straight to uni as we couldn't afford it straight off and he is working a year and has a few friends also doing this as well

You may research certain things but I live and work with poorer backgrounds and some of the comments are ignorant such as rather have a cuppa or watch jerry springer , that applies to very few

You shouldn't make assumptions about me.
My parents had me when they were 16 and I grew up on one of the most deprived estates in the uk . I've lived this.
I've worked and supported young people from deprived backgrounds for over 20 years.

The reasons are multi faceted. The cost of university is a factor but the cultural aspects are also a factor. The concept of 'debt' and what that means to you can have a huge influence.

Private school vs state schools is always going to be an issues but again that's quite simplistic.

Cultural and social capital are the key factors tbh.

I get this, but encouraging your children to work hard at school isn't always enough, especially if you go to a crap school and your parents can't afford private tuition. Some people just aren't academic and will never get high grades. The difference is, if your parents have money then they're likely to have contacts who will give you a helping hand into a good career. Working class kids sont have this opportunity

This is let blame poor people.

Nobody is blaming poor people 🙄

I think it's a lot to do with attitude. I grew up very poor, I'm the youngest of 7 and we lived on about £700 per month. But we all went to University, we are now all home and car owners and take (pre COVID) multiple trips/holidays per year. We were often taken to parks, museums, the Library, trips that cost very little. TV was university challenge, the news - never any of the soaps. Neither of my parents drank or smoked, we never had a video recorder etc just ordinary (rented) TV We never had take aways maybe fish and chips as a treat very occasionally. We all went single sex schools and I honestly think that made a difference. But the expectation was we worked our hardest at school and I never thought of doing anything else other than Uni. There is also prejudice against poverty and where you are from. I don't talk about how poor my childhood was or where I grew up.

@Monopolyiscrap exactly its easier to shift the blame though
I hope we have done all we can with our kids and we have done as much with ours as my bf whose has money and kids went to private if you take money side away
But the simple fact is they will still have and so have more opportunities

@SpinsForGin

This is let blame poor people.

Nobody is blaming poor people 🙄

It absolutely is. This thread is full of middle-class people posting stereotypes.

@SpinsForGin sorry have you not read some of the threads ??

[quote worriedatthemoment]@SpinsForGin sorry have you not read some of the threads ?? [/quote]
Yes, you're always going to have some people make ridiculous comments (which are generally called out) but there have also been a lot of reasonable comments posted which actually have some basis in reality.

@Payitforward55 Mm we have takeaways im pretty sure that hasn't stopped my dc going to uni
I would imagine you didn't have take aways due to cost rather than it would harm your education and many middle/ upper class children have tv recorders etc
I don't think these things alone will determine success , all the other things your parents did yes and obviously the work you have put in yourself

I await the wrath of Mumsnet, but it's my personal experience of some one being brought up in a very deprived area but thankfully I changed that.
This is not all deprived people but mostly people I grew up around and still know. Deprived families often have very large families and lots of children, they fe they have no prospect of becoming a high earner so they put a majority of there effort in family, this is easily achievable and give them a goal and self worth. Family is everything and putting it before career is gives them meeting, it's a reinforcment opposite to work life balance. They are achievers as they have amazing family and friends even if financially it's a battle.
I have heard many conversations from my friends when I grew up saying their kids are not going to uni to get into debt or its the government's fault, this environment deincenivises their kids. I'm not saying they are wrong but it does not help. There is alot of resentment to others who make it out and are successful and it rubs off on their children, it's okay for them easy to say when you have money comments and facebook memes of I don't need money just love. There needs to be a balance but when your broke it's hard to give just as those at the top looks Ng down on poor people.

@SpinsForGin

But I do agree that having a well paid job shouldn't be the only measure of success. However, we know that people from disadvantaged backgrounds are underrepresented in a number of sectors so it's an important that we look at why and try to address the issue.

A warm home, security, and all of that other good stuff requires money. Especially if you come from a poor background, as you're unlikely to get any help from mummy and daddy. My parents were from poor backgrounds (each had an illiterate parent), getting a 'low paid happy happy' job was not an option. I myself barely scraped together enough money to study in the UK, my parents took out loans etc. I had no choice.

I also didn't know that any degree could get you a job here, or that loads of jobs even existed (nothing much in our country), it was like my eyes had been opened. I was set on my (rather daring) current career path closer to my interests, and while not my 'dream job' if I could do anything I wanted.. it's a lot better and closer to my personality!

People lead people, which is why mentoring etc in underrepresented communities is so important.

Even being a programmer which is my current job and 'egalitarian' (you either have the ability or you don't!) A lot of people got into it because they had computers, and video games, as as child like DP. I got my first computer when I was 16. Still a long way to go for catching up... but I always share my story and tell people do not worry, ignore all those 'I've been programming from the age of 6' people, there is room for everyone

@speakout there is a fair few though and only a couple of us have called them out
Which ones are true in your opinion then ?

Immigrants have been used as a lot of ‘started with nothing’ examples. I wonder if that is a fair comparison? By definition, someone who has upped sticks and moved to another country are already making unexpected things happen for themselves, and also used to navigating unfamiliar systems. It’s possible that they expect things to be difficult to navigate, are well practiced at finding things out and seeking resources. Unlike people who just don’t know what they don’t know. They are a self selected sample of people who are definitely very aspirational, so whatever it takes to make things happen despite your start, they definitely have lots of it! Just a thought.

As the first in my family to go to uni, I didn’t really understand how it could lead to a career. I understood degrees qualified you for specific things, but I didn’t understand (at least early enough) that all those recruitment fairs and whatnot were how you got on more generally. I sort of dimly thought they were like careers evenings at school…..So you want to be a Graduate Trainee? Type literature. So I just finished my degree and though ‘oh, shit, got no money, better get a job’ and wound up in the first admin job i was offered. I knew no one who had been through the system, didn’t properly grasp how it worked and failed to benefit from my degree at all. Had I been supported by my parents, I could have held out for something better, or travelled a bit to kill time and applied later. But I had to support myself. I still curse myself for not ‘getting it’ although I’ve done ok and am pretty happy with life. I’d call myself successful in general terms, although I’m not nearly so monied as many people here (and am going through a rough patch just at the moment. A foot in both camps!)

It isn’t part of their worldview.

I’m certainly not from a posh background myself, I’m not sure where I would fit class-wise (neither parent went to university, pretty skint growing up, but lived in an okay-ish area and went to an ok school).

But I lived with my ex’s family for quite a while who were very very much on the breadline. It opened my eyes completely. Careers aren’t mentioned - it’s like a middle class teen talking about becoming the head of the Bank of England, or an astronaut. You just don’t - you set what are in your mind achievable goals. For middle class kids, that’s being an accountant or a pharmacist etc. But those jobs are just as out of reach as being an astronaut to teens from deprived areas.

Same reasons - there will be better/cleverer candidates, it’s a pipe dream, I wouldn’t know how to go about it, it’s too long a journey and I need money quickly.

Plus seeing people around you ‘jobbing’ - going from one low skilled job to the next - is just the norm. It isn’t seen as being a particularly low achiever, it’s just what most people do.

The thing is though, I didn’t come away from it feeling ‘sorry’ for them, or feeling that they were letting themselves down in not aspiring to ‘better things’. They had a very close, loving family. They weren’t starving. They didn’t take work home with them; so every evening and weekend was family time. There was no pressure on the kids to do well in exams, so no angst or anxiety there. If they didn’t like a job they just changed it, they didn’t feel trapped because they’d spent 5 years training to do it.

Money doesn’t always equal happiness. Sometimes I wonder if that’s a better deal.

Maybe its just that we all need to find our vocation

We do indeed. I just feel a bit sorry for my nephew, who's a lovely lad struggling to get a minimum wage job. He was a bright lad who could have done well at school had he tried.

As much as I love my brother (who's a graduate with an MBA), he has weird views on education being pointless and better paid jobs ceasing to exist in a decade. As a result, my nephew wasn't encouraged to have an aspiration to work towards.

@Monopolyiscrap

And as an adult, I have heard teachers in social situations state stereotypes about working-class parents not caring about education or not supporting their kids. It makes me so bloody angry. But easier to blame parents than the system.

Parental influence is key. Your parents occupation and education level are the number one predictor of your future career/education.

The lack of parental support can be for many reasons - some genuinely don't place much importance on education, some have had poor experiences of the education system themselves so are actually scared to engage, and some are really supportive but don't have the knowledge or confidence to support their children.

It is lazy if schools and education professionals are just assuming this is laziness or not caring. However, in my experience most teachers have a good understanding of the issues at play.

I grew up in poverty. My mum never worked (mental health issues) and my step dad mostly did labouring (or sold drugs), though he did briefly work for a large company. No one we knew owned their house, my parents bought stepdad's council flat eventually, but sold it and went travelling and spent all the money within a few years bar buying a really run down boat to live on. When my mum died, I paid for her funeral.

I was expected to leave home at 16 and work, as I was sharing a room with 2 sisters paying £20 a week rent. No support through education, no encouragement, just expected to get on with it (I left with 4 GCSEs). So I went into low paid work and dropped out of several college courses. Had my first baby at 20, it was normal in our circle to be a SAHM and claim benefits while the OH worked so we remained poor had a few more children. Private rent as no council places available.

When the DCs were small I decided I wanted more so I trained to be a nurse and now earn £30k a year. Unfortunately DH has been unwell and out of work for a year, so we aren't doing great but we have no debts, saving towards a deposit and when he is back at work we will hopefully be able to buy a house.

It's really hard work breaking away from the way you were brought up. Drugs and alcohol at every family function since I can remember and everyone we knew pretty much was living on benefits, or at least heavily propped up by them (through choice mainly). I chose to move away from that but I do get stick from relatives as they feel I think I'm too good for them. I don't, I just don't want my DCs exposed to the stuff I was.

It's money!!

cricket, DofE, swimming, piano etc
For your child to get into a sports team such as swimming it all costs a lot. Travelling the country for swim meets, hotel rooms equipment are just out of reach for some families and these things massively help children's development. The social connections and confidence they build sense of achievement and pride are missed by so many low income families.
My husband is a graduate snd works in facilities management I left school at 15 and own my own sandwich shop both of which are really physical jobs and at 45 with multiple health conditions I'm in pain and exhausted after work so after house jobs and dinner prep I just don't have the energy most days to then get back out and do late nights at clubs

@Hellorhighwater

Immigrants have been used as a lot of ‘started with nothing’ examples. I wonder if that is a fair comparison? By definition, someone who has upped sticks and moved to another country are already making unexpected things happen for themselves, and also used to navigating unfamiliar systems. It’s possible that they expect things to be difficult to navigate, are well practiced at finding things out and seeking resources. Unlike people who just don’t know what they don’t know. They are a self selected sample of people who are definitely very aspirational, so whatever it takes to make things happen despite your start, they definitely have lots of it! Just a thought.

As the first in my family to go to uni, I didn’t really understand how it could lead to a career. I understood degrees qualified you for specific things, but I didn’t understand (at least early enough) that all those recruitment fairs and whatnot were how you got on more generally. I sort of dimly thought they were like careers evenings at school…..So you want to be a Graduate Trainee? Type literature. So I just finished my degree and though ‘oh, shit, got no money, better get a job’ and wound up in the first admin job i was offered. I knew no one who had been through the system, didn’t properly grasp how it worked and failed to benefit from my degree at all. Had I been supported by my parents, I could have held out for something better, or travelled a bit to kill time and applied later. But I had to support myself. I still curse myself for not ‘getting it’ although I’ve done ok and am pretty happy with life. I’d call myself successful in general terms, although I’m not nearly so monied as many people here (and am going through a rough patch just at the moment. A foot in both camps!)

Don't know when you went to uni but yes there's an element of that. I have found the career centres in good unis excellent though - I also knew nothing, and they really guided me (along with alumni).

R.e. immigrants that's an interesting point.
W.r.t to an 'aspiration' perspective yes, there's definitely a self selection aspect.
However w.r.t resources.. if people can suceed despite having nothing, whether they're immigrants or not that proves it CAN be done, and there needs to be motivation.
If the community doesn't provide it should be schools, or other stuff.

From DP's perspective near his area it 'wasn't cool' to be studious. People were mocked for getting good grades. It's this sort of thing that damages fledgling dreams.

@feb21 maybe an apprenticeship would be a way your nephew could go
Tbf my ds16 works in a local fast food place part time as he is at college and they take people on with no real grades , hes on £7.50 an hr which as 16 is above min wage
Now my ds doesn't want to work their for life but my friends ds is thinking if giving up college to go full time , he is on more an hr as he has done some extra training and has saved a few thousand already so maybe thats the best path for him and he will likely be a homeowner before my ds who will likely go to uni etc

I work with schools, Secondaries in particular, and there is a massive education gap created by the pandemic, particularly in lower income families. Children arriving in secondary schools with a lower reading age

• sometimes 2 or 3 years below where they should be.

It's not because lower income parents didn't want to help their children. It's because they didn't have the resources, time or education to homeschool.

They couldn't afford to buy a device for each child for online learning. Kids had to share a laptop or tablet. They didn't have the money to buy resources at home, books to read ( many relied on libraries, which shut), paper, printer ink to print out 'free' resources from the internet. Or the money to get faster broadband for several people - a parent WFH and a child. 2 children 3 - all trying to be online at the same time.

Many of those parents went out to work, as carers, supermarket workers, drivers, builders, electricians, nurses while the rest of us WFH so weren't there to supervise and help their children.

Many didn't have a good enough education themselves to be helping older kids with maths or literacy or other subjects.The confidence to homeschool. Or the space for their children to effectively learn - no space, no garden.

And then they still had the same stress and anxiety that we all had to deal with, the fact that we were locked down on top of each other, with no idea how it was all going to pan put.
As with everything it's the people with less money, time and resources who suffer the most. And their kids.

@MichaelAndEagle

Also, you know there are doctors and solicitors. But you don't know there are Chief Financial Officers for example. You just don't know, because you don't come across people who do these jobs iyswim

I had never met anyone who worked in an office until I got with DH, his BIL worked in bank. I thought they were so posh!

Thinking about my brother (who has fallen on hard times and works for minimum wage, although he's happy with his life), geography has played quite a large part.

He lives in quite a deprived town in Yorkshire that doesn't have the job opportunities we have in London. It plays a role, both directly for jobs, but also indirectly in terms of having role models working in a range of careers.