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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

851 replies

suggestedlogin · 20/02/2022 11:57

I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

OP posts:
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5
godmum56 · 20/02/2022 15:38

@speakout

*GrumpyTerrier Some examples:
  • My mother begged me not to go to Cambridge when I was eligible and the school was encouraging it, because she felt it would be so posh that she would never be able to visit or feel comfortable with me. So I didn't go.
*

Same thing here.
I excelled at school and was accepted into a good university to study medicine.
My parents talked me out of it- saying I would feel uncomfortable/wouldn't fit in because I was too lower class.
I really wanted to go but they talked me out of it.

bloody crab bucket
Photolass · 20/02/2022 15:39

Some of it depends on parents' jobs. When I taught in primary school, many years ago, I wasn't surprised to see doctors' children becoming doctors themselves, and taxi drivers' children running their own taxi businesses (probably earning more than the doctors).

One boy's father was an electrician, and he has now got his own electrician company. I occasionally see his vans around.

One great surprise was the child of an artist, who is now a plumber, so it doesn't always work.

You need to make your child aware of the possibilities, support them at school and then let them ultimately decide what they want to do.

The problem can be money, though. It costs a lot to go to university, especially for medicine, and children from poorer backgrounds will often prefer to get a job such as working in a shop, or restaurant, that pays a monthly wage.
In the past, many parents wanted their children earning as quickly as possible, to support the family, and that may still be the case today in some families.

godmum56 · 20/02/2022 15:39

@Thewindwhispers

No expert, but DH and I both were v poor as kids, and both ended up in high paid professional careers - the thing that made the difference with both of us, was that our parents were highly ambitious for us and school was seen as helping out with education, not leading it. They had an attitude of “That standard may be good enough for your classmates/teachers, but it is not good enough for you, you are capable of more.” Parents took us to libraries, checked out textbooks with us, and coached us through them as best they could. (Even easier now with internet!) I wasn’t allowed a part time job, I was expected to study hard every night and get straight As, which I did. They pushed me to apply to Oxford despite no one from my school having gone there in decades (Oxford was thrilled to have an application from my dodgy school) and then when I had a wobble and wanted a more fun less work degree elsewhere, parents talked me into accepting the Oxford offer. After that everything became easy as companies fought to recruit Oxbridge students.

Top GCSE& Alevel grades lead to top uni which leads to top job. The hard bit, and the bit where many poor families fail, is not realising early enough that the teachers are merely there to help out, they may do a crap job, and they are more interested in helping struggling students reach average than helping ambitious students. I know parents who don’t teach their kids anything and shrug and say “that’s the school’s job.” Their kids are already screwed academically 😢

The effort from the parents makes all the difference. Be your child’s motivator, researcher, advocate, tutor, coach, and protect them from distractions (while keeping them sane lol) and they’ll do great.

(Ps if you are on v low salary then do look into bursaries at private schools, there is a lot of funding available if you look in the right places, and that goes for uni fees too…)

this. Believe in your kids and support them.
SnowFlo · 20/02/2022 15:40

He sits down and she says 'when you are grown up and do your phd, you'll have an office just like this

I personally don't think this a good way to speak to your child. I always ask mine what they would like to do when they are older, and present various career ideas to them, and then I'd tell them what they would have to do to become what they said.

I wouldn't ever go "when you go uni" or "when you do your phd" for the simple reason that I don't want my children to feel like they have disappointed me if they do not do these things. I don't want my children to feel pressured into "oh I have to go to uni and get a PhD because if I don't then I've let my family down and they will think I'm lazy or stupid or not what they wanted".

JellybabyGina87 · 20/02/2022 15:40

Yes I think it possibly is a learning difficulty I've got. I used to get As and Bs in things like English and other subjects but maths, it's like my brain just switches off. My DH is brilliant at maths but he can't spell.

JellybabyGina87 · 20/02/2022 15:40

Sorry, that was to Godmum.

Milomonster · 20/02/2022 15:42

My father came to this country as an immigrant in the 70s. He had very little education but had the grit and charisma to become very successful. He put us through private schooling but we had very little access cultural capital and intense parental input. However, without the schooling I had, I’m not sure I would be where I am with a very successful academic career. My DC has also benefited from private schooling (his Head has been a great mentor to him) but also all the amazing learning opportunities in London. He can have conversations about politics that many adults couldn’t (he’s 10). He also has access to great role models, and has aspirations of what he’d like to do.
I don’t think private schooling is necessarily an advantage without the boost from parents and access to learning opportunities outside of school (which is quite narrow IMHO).

AngelinaFibres · 20/02/2022 15:43

It's a confidence thing as much as anything. I worked with children in deprived areas for years. They don't see getting away from it as something for them. Its almost as if you think you are better than your family and friends if you actively want to do better and that is a difficult mindset to work around. Middle class children are exposed to lots of different experiences as they grow. They go to cafes, to restaurants, to nice social events. They learn how to behave without really thinking about it. They have experience of dressing smartly or casually as the event requires. They feel comfortable in their own skins.I had a TA at my last school who had never been to a 'proper' restaurant. She and her partner were too nervous about being asked about the wine they would like, which cutlery to use, that they just didn't go. Another TA had a son who was gifted in maths. The deputy head suggested he should try for a scholarship to a local private school. Her husband had a carpet cleaning business. She felt people would look down on her and that 'It's not for people like us'. Her son works for his dad now.

CaptainMyCaptain · 20/02/2022 15:45

@JellybabyGina87

Yes I think it possibly is a learning difficulty I've got. I used to get As and Bs in things like English and other subjects but maths, it's like my brain just switches off. My DH is brilliant at maths but he can't spell.
My daughter was like that, As and Bs in other subjects, and had to take Maths GCSE three times. She didn't have a learning disability she just needed a different teacher and I was, fortunately, able to pay for some sessions with a tutor. People who find maths easy are not necessarily the best people to teach maths to those who find it difficult. They need a teacher who understands why they don't understand.
User1isnotavailable · 20/02/2022 15:45

Lack of openings. Internships (without pay) aren't assessible to everyone.

Lack of contacts 'mummy knows x who will put you in touch with Y at Z organisation'.

The need to work whilst doing a degree so maximum loan/bursary if possible and a job. Private school already used to funding education therefore easier to continue with help during degree.

Inheritance and help along the way from family - first car purchase, lots of holidays, sports activities and other more expensive pursuits, help with home ownership, monthly income support. Some people from less well off backgrounds just have to get jobs to support themselves earlier since non one to support them.

HundredMilesAnHour · 20/02/2022 15:47

I come from a working class background, small village in the North West (as a kid, we didn't even have a flushing toilet for several years and used a bucket instead, money was very tight). But my parents (my mother especially) encouraged me to read. A lot. My mother (and her mother too) was incredibly bright but too poor to stay on education and had to get a job as soon as she was old enough. My father (a manual worker) was never encouraged by his parents to do anything and is still quite bitter even now. They wanted me to have the opportunities they never had. And I think that's how it started.

My school was rough - we made regional headlines at one point for the fighting at lunchtimes with another school "terrifying local residents". My A level college was mainly known for it's work with prisoners in the local prison. I was the first in the family to go to university (I worked 4 part time jobs to fund myself). Most of my family thought I was "up myself" and I still remember one aunt asking my mother why she was encouraging me to do A levels. As a girl, my only aspiration should have been to get married and have kids. Clearly I had ideas far above my station!

I went to university as far away from home as I could get - not because I'd had a bad childhood but because I wanted to spread my wings. After university, I got a place on a grad scheme with one of the (now) Big Four in London. And that really opened my eyes. I remember sitting in the office and this (awful) posh woman a year ahead of me asking about my background and saying "what on earth is someone like you from a Northern comprehensive doing in a place like this?" Seriously. Angry And I just thought that with all the benefits of her expensive private education yet to be in the same job as me, I wasn't the stupid one. Wink

It was the first time I'd come across people working in the City. Previously it was just something you saw on the news. And I wanted a piece of it. It took me a couple of years but I got there. I worked hard. I took risks. I made a lot of sacrifices. Now I earn 6 figures in banking, have travelled the world and am well respected. For years most of my family thought working in a bank meant me sitting behind a counter while someone paid cheques in to me. Now they know enough to understand that they have no idea what I actually do at work. Except it seems to involved a lot of stress, long hours and at times fancy travel/living overseas.

My life is polar opposite to my childhood friends. My best friend has never lived more than 3 miles away from her parents. From my secondary school year of approx 200 pupils, there a handful of us (less than 10) who moved more than 50 miles and/or did anything particularly "bold". As adults we stay in touch and support each other - because we know we don't fit in "at home", we're the "outliers", the deviants who thought there was more out there than the small provincial town we went to school in.

I was lucky, if you can call it that. My parents pushed me hard (probably too hard - it's taken a lot of expensive therapy to deal with how it impacted me) but I was bright and I do well under pressure. It could have easily been a different story. Without that pressure, I'd probably be on my 4th divorce by now and be as miserable as hell. Life in a small Northern town was never going to enough for me. I don't know why. Sometimes I wish I could have just been satisfied with what I had rather than always wanting more. But then where's the fun in that? Wink

Note to PP: I was also brought up to "speak properly" (i.e. not have a really broad accent) and clean my shoes. You wouldn't catch me dead in unpolished shoes - and yes, I am judging other people for dirty shoes. Grin

CourtRand · 20/02/2022 15:47

@HotSauceCommittee

Social mobility is at an all time low. Uni fees are too much for some MC families to afford, so higher education will seem like an impossibility for lots, especially if parents haven't considered it for their children.
But deprived families get the maximum loan so can afford it
soberfabulous · 20/02/2022 15:49

I was really poor as a kid, went to bed hungry and often cold. My parents were ambitious for me: pushed me to win a scholarship to a private school which was a game changer for me. First person in family ever to go to Uni.

I'm now very successful career wise and earn a high six figure salary.

What always infuriates me is that my parents look at the wealthy as better than them and are intimated by money. I've had to re learn a lot of lessons about money that I absorbed as a kid.

Ionlydomassiveones · 20/02/2022 15:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

ldontWanna · 20/02/2022 15:54

The main issue is that broadening horizons and offering options and even encouragement takes time,effort,a certain level of skill and knowledge and money.

Poorer families tend to have low resources on some of these things if not all of them. We have parents that don't have the skills (through no fault of their own) to help their kids with ks1 homework for example.

We're working class and looking/hoping at a grammar school for DD. You need to know how and when to apply, do your research, figure out what scheme/tests they're doing. Buy books or look for examples online and also be able to do them with your child and explain it to them. Have the time to keep practicing. Or pay for a tutor. Ask around about the schools,transport,costs etc. what they are doing to support their kids,any tips and so on. There is only one person I know whose kids are at a grammar school. And after all that time and effort and (not that big) expense she might still not get in and we need to have a plan B and C so she can still have (good) options.

We live in a deprived area, strife with poverty, crime,county lines, cuckooing etc it's a constant daily battle to not only keep her sheltered from it all but to also make sure she has options, she knows about them and that she can dream "big". Atm she wants to be a dentist. I don't really care what job she actually will have as long as she's settled,safe and happy but I want her to have REAL choices and be aware of what's out there.

Marineboy67 · 20/02/2022 15:57

I practically grew up in care and foster homes with buggerall. I always wanted security and after qualifying as a bricklayer and a 1year old in tow I bought my council house at 22. I worked very hard and after several house moves paid off my mortgage at 39. I encouraged my 3 daughters at school and taught them to do jobs for rewards. 2 of them are university graduates with good careers and my youngest manages a bar & restaurant. They were all raised on a council estate it really is down to what you put it to them and make them realise you can do anything if your determined enough.

Piggyk2 · 20/02/2022 16:00

I think it depends how knowledgable your parents are too. My mum always worked very hard. However when I left school she was so busy raising 3 other kids... she could not give me the correct type of advice that would lead onto to me having a wise future. Simple things like I rented at 19 instead of living in a shared house... saving and buying. I don't remember my mum advising me what to study at college... she was ne er any good at that type of thing.

My mum had me young so she didn't even do 1 year at college until later on in life. So sometimes it's just having that push in the right direction if you don't get this it's really tough.

Clarabella77 · 20/02/2022 16:02

Lots of reason but my theory is it's to do with how people see themselves and who they are surrounded by. (While I don't come from a poor background, I didn't come from an especially aspirational background so I'm drawing from this).

In families that experience generational poverty, there are unlikely to be many people from professions in their circles. So people doing these jobs can seem a little like "other people with an air of mystique". The way I heard lawyers and doctors referred to, growing up, made them seem like super special beings - not ordinary humans doing a job that they'd worked hard for. If you have parents who found school to be a negative experience, therefore limiting their own chances, you're less likely to get that support at home too, which will make many young people immediately discount certain career routes.

There are also the real practical barriers. Even in a country with free education and in Scotland we still have free University tuition, it still costs to access the opportunities be that extra tuition, living costs at university, extra curricular activities, postgraduate qualification etc - those can be immediate barriers towards pursuing anything.

Finally, I think the lower your own personal income, the higher the stakes become for failure. Aspiration comes with the real risk of failure and the less you have, the more you have to lose if things don't work out. It takes real guts to really go for something without the safety net of family support. So if the option is pursue a law degree for five years to become a wealthy corporate lawyer eventually or take an admin entry level job straight out of school - the latter might seem like the better option despite limiting earning potential longer term.

SpinsForGin · 20/02/2022 16:04

But deprived families get the maximum loan so can afford it

In many cases the maximum loan doesn't even cover accommodation. There is an expected parental contribution which isn't made explicit.

InTheNightWeWillWish · 20/02/2022 16:05

I’m not massively well-off but I have a professional job and we’re probably lower middle class now. My mum did educational visits, taking me places, buying me books, encouraging my independence. School told me I was bright and planted uni firmly in my brain. My school friends were very similar though and I’m the only one in a professional job.

The main difference between me and my friends is that I had a desire to leave my hometown. I realised early on there were no opportunities. As much as I love my family (and miss them now I live 200 miles away from them), I knew I’d leave my hometown at 18 and not go back.

Kennykenkencat · 20/02/2022 16:06

CourtRand

HotSauceCommittee
Social mobility is at an all time low. Uni fees are too much for some MC families to afford, so higher education will seem like an impossibility for lots, especially if parents haven't considered it for their children

But deprived families get the maximum loan so can afford it

But Middle class families don’t. Sometimes you can earn just too much to qualify for enough help to make it possible to afford stuff.

I think the well off can afford stuff
I think the poor get help but those on the middle are struggling.

Whilst they might have some savings and some spare cash at the end of the month it isn’t quite enough

Crikeyalmighty · 20/02/2022 16:09

Most younger people like to feel part of ‘a gang/friendship group’ — if this group are all anti intellectual, sneery of others who work hard and are fed such stuff from home too , then your child will often want to feel ‘part of this’ so start exhibiting the same behaviour and attitudes . However the reverse is also true and hence why you get awful attitudes and entitlement from old Etonians etc—

speakout · 20/02/2022 16:10

Clarabella7

Low apsirations are also born from fear. I grew up in a poor mining community, where just a few generations ago "indentured labour" was the norm. This is in the UK.

Crikeyalmighty · 20/02/2022 16:11

@Kennykenkencat. That’s why personally I’m pro Uni etc at about 24 after several years working— that way parental income is discounted as you are considered a self sufficient adult

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