Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I think hot housing children is a great idea if you are open to their interests. I think sometimes parents put their interests on their child and expect them to want the same careers.

No good hot housing a child so they can become a doctor or lawyer if they end up miserable and would have loved to go into music or cookery and made even more of their life doing something they enjoyed

I saw a documentary once on Tiger Parents and one couple I really remember because they had the same life they were giving their Ds yet they were so miserable and I wouldn’t have said successful.

My own experience is different, purely anecdotal though. Went through school with a group of friends, all but 1 were from middle class backgrounds. Moderately well off families no money worries. All parents home owners. All have gone in to have reasonable careers. 1 of us was from a poorer family, lived in a council estate ina run down area. She was determined to have better for herself and she got it in spades! Top of her career ladder in mo time. She also chose a very well paid career while the rest of us went into teaching, nursing, environmental work etc. All decent jobs but none of us earned a fraction that she did. I have always believed it was background that propelled her as well as great family support.

Dh was first in his family to go to university both parents left school at 16 - to this day I don’t think they quite realise how well he did!

"And this kid was brought up his whole life with an example of academic parents and the idea he could achieve that."

And might end up feeling a failure if he ends up with 'just' a masters.

Going to Cambridge I mean. Middle class parents would fall over themselves ! The nicest thing dh dad has ever said was “dh md et gave us any trouble” 😁

I think it's mostly that they don't have experience of people being really successful. For example if everyone you've ever known has earnt less than £30k why would you ask for a wage of £60k, even if you're worth it? Whereas if you know loads of people who earnt great money you'd see the £60k as a stepping stone on the road to much more because why wouldn't you be capable of that too?

Then there's the playing the system. I went to a decent school but it was fascinating watching how the families that were on their third or fourth generation of high achievers knew how to get things that would have been an absolute mystery to me. For instance, if you want to get in to some of the best private schools you need to be at the right prep school which means you need to have your name down as a toddler for a school you don't start at until 13.

“Never gave us any trouble” hog praise indeed!

High! Can’t bloody type today!

I'm not very academic. I'm not stupid but I never passed maths GCSE and you need that to get on most courses. There's jobs I could probably do well but I can't do maths and never will be able to so all that is available to me is working in a shop or similar level. I'm trained in childcare but that's also minimum wage.

Privilege. Lots of doors open with money and contacts

@AmyandPhilipfan

I live in a ‘deprived’ area. At my older kids’ old primary it was the same handful of parents who did the English and Maths courses, did the Family Learning courses, joined the parents’ group etc. The school was desperate to get more of them joining in without much success. I think a lot of it came down to confidence and a real lack of it. I once did a course with the same group of mums as normal and at the end of it we went for lunch in another town about a twenty minute drive away. I was surprised when about 4 mums said they’d never been before and were nervous about going for lunch there. Not just pleased to be going somewhere new but fearful about it. I wasn’t from the area but had been to this town a few times. I was so surprised that these women, who’d grown up in the area, had never been, and were very nervous about going. And these were the ‘joining in’ mums, so the others probably feel even less confident about doing things - hence why they don’t join in.

I used to take my younger child to a playgroup in a street very close to the school. Lovely little group, cost 50p for a couple of hours including a decent snack. Surrounded by houses in an area with a 2 form entry primary school, so there must have been loads of families with under 5s who could have gone. Most weeks there were about 8 kids there. The same 8 that went every week. And most of them also went to the other local groups. My daughter at 4 is still friends with 3 kids she sometimes saw 5 days a week at various baby groups in the area. But we should have come into contact with so many more local kids that we never did. Where were they while the playgroups were on? Yes some would have been at nursery but there are a lot of families here with non working parents or one working parent and yet you never saw those kids. And I do think it’s mostly a confidence issue. The parents are not confident to take the kids to groups or libraries or clubs or museums, which all help to broaden horizons, and I’m not really sure how to rectify that.

Yes. We would go to places around London "just because" My parents wanted us to go to secondary schools that were a busride away so that we would learn to use public transport and see somewhere different instead of the local area. Same with college/Uni. They didn't want us to live at home they wanted us to broaden our horizons. I think to break that cycle (and the associated crab bucket mentality) its going to take the same kind of social attitude change as something like seatbelt wearing.

I'll bite. Grew up poor.
University wasn't even mentioned as an option at our school. Not until Most of my peers went on to do NVQs in hairdressing and childcare. Nowt wrong with that, of course, if thats what you want to do.
I suspect better schools might suggest earlier on which A Levels you need to aim for if you want to do a career in eg law, medicine, nursing, education.

@JellybabyGina87

I'm not very academic. I'm not stupid but I never passed maths GCSE and you need that to get on most courses. There's jobs I could probably do well but I can't do maths and never will be able to so all that is available to me is working in a shop or similar level. I'm trained in childcare but that's also minimum wage.

is it a learning difficulty? I can't do maths but my school had a special stream for the maths duds who needed to pass the exam for their chosen course. We had the best maths teacher in the school and she was clear that she was there to get us through the exam not to make us into people who were good at maths. maybe its worth looking into maths courses for people like me and you? Please don't get yourself into the mindset "I can't do and will never be able to"

I can see what you mean about confidence, Amy. I see a shade of that in DH and his family. Not so much SIL, because she has a very bold personality and her confidence is rewarded. But DH gets very nervous about going to places out of his comfort zone, like baby swim lessons or the dance school run. MIL used to be very concerned about what other people would think of her if she showed up to DSD's posh kiddie drama class without everyone looking their best.

Even DSD at 16 is held back by confidence issues. Her mum's partners took it personally if she mentioned a desire to go to uni (because they didn't). Ex BIL took it personally if uni aspirations were mentioned (because he didn't go). DSD's high school culture consistently implies that uni is for people who ace exams, and other people do college or apprenticeships. The uni she took the most interest in won't give her the time of day because she won't achieve five As at Higher by age 16. Not even if she achieved those exams grades at a more mature age later.

To me, it's their loss, and there are a ton of overlooked but high quality degree programmes out there (as well as college courses and modern apprenticeships), which she has every right to apply for once she's ready. But I think some adults in her life are still of the impression that DSD's abilities are fixed, rather than fluid.

@JellybabyGina87

I'm not very academic. I'm not stupid but I never passed maths GCSE and you need that to get on most courses. There's jobs I could probably do well but I can't do maths and never will be able to so all that is available to me is working in a shop or similar level. I'm trained in childcare but that's also minimum wage.

Try the Open University. No prior qualifications required.

My DS and I were from a poor as piss background.
I got a scholarship to a private boarding school and was surrounded by high fliers throughout school, uni and my early 20s.
My DS was never encouraged by our parent, did abysmally academically and appeared to have limited options.
My DS has been the successful one and me - the high flier - is poor AF and have never achieved anything of merit post university.
It's not quite as simplistic as some suggest.

Is life fair - obviously not. Can outcomes be changed, yes - though to date, sadly not for everyone. All most people can do is try to work out how and what might make the most difference to their own families outcomes. That’s reality, once every once in a while someone altruistic comes along and changes outcomes on a local level. For most people this probably won’t unfortunately happen.
Previous waves of immigrants, have come to these shores with nothing, and some of their children have flourished in our state education system. Not all have, by any means, but if some have, it must at least be possible for children to succeed against the odds.
Engage with your children's development from day one, certainly the younger the better, and seek all means to secure free and low cost help for you to help them, this is so much harder to do if you are time poor.
I know how lame this will sound to anyone working 2+ low paid jobs to survive.
Use (free) libraries, use the computers in libraries, use any free courses to learn to use the computers - find out what is available in your area, what can help you, to help your family.
Look at books with your children as soon as they can sit up, pick up second hand books at charity shops, car boot sales. As has been mentioned, go to places like free museums. Fire up the imagination of young minds.

On parents evening, especially at primary school, ask your children's teacher what they will be learning in the next term then if it’s at all possible, take your family to a museum that covers that subject. Or borrow library books that could bring the subject alive for them.

I didn’t ‘hothouse’ my children, but we did play lots of simple ‘word games’ often made by using the inside of cereal packets. (Such as pick up the pairs, one syllables words: ‘the’, ‘at’, ‘ in’ etc which helped with their reading). It doesn’t have to be intense, but it does need to be consistent, early foundations in education lead to better exam outcomes later.

Our birth families did not have the benefit of a University Education, but our children have, and my husband has, through Open University.
Good luck to everyone aspiring to level up.

I think it’s learned behavior. If your parents have low aspirations, then that’s normal to you. If your parents are high achievers, then that’s normal to you. It doesn’t mean that people can’t be different from their parents though.

Hi, @suggestedlogin -

Fabulous question. You are off to a great start. Lots of good advice here already

One of the things my successful Widening Participation university students seem to have in common is a supportive mum! Help your DC define and pursue realistic dreams. If they show an interest in art, music, coding, science, maths, medicine, engineering, etc - chances are that there is a general, low cost or specific Widening Participation opportunity in the subject. Help them pursue it. As others have said, the Sutton Trust and Girl Network among others are excellent.

Even a couple of inspiring and/or supportive teachers can also go a long way. So can a few like minded friends

I totally understand it...i grew up inthe 70s, moved from a one bed tenement flat with an outside toilet to a new town, my father then left us so my mum was a single mum with three kids at 23. She got a job in a factory when she could, she instilled a work ethic but in that you get a job and pay your way. I hated being poor, i hated having the free school dinner ticket, i hated where i lived and never quite fitted in and couldnt wait to escape. I was given three job options during my discussion with careers advisor. I had no idea what I wanted to do and I fell into a profession ...saw an advert in the job centre and applied. Didnt know what it was..got on the 3yr paid course. It has allowed me to travel, i live in a major city in a very wealthy area and my DC now go to private school. My DS was the first in uni, my mother couldnt understand why I paid for private school and doesnt see it as important. She still feels uncomfortable in anything she perceives to be posh. All my family have stayed where they are, part of me envies it but then after a week I realise why I left. I was most upset at my niece who was a dancer and tried to encourage her to apply to dance school in london. She didnt and ended up working in a coffee shop , is married now and works parttime. She is happy but I still feel she didnt reach her potential... I hope she encourages her DC to be the best they can be...but who am i to judge. I hated where i grew up and escaped others in my family are happy.

@JellybabyGina87

I'm not very academic. I'm not stupid but I never passed maths GCSE and you need that to get on most courses. There's jobs I could probably do well but I can't do maths and never will be able to so all that is available to me is working in a shop or similar level. I'm trained in childcare but that's also minimum wage.

Years ago you didn’t need specific GCSEs to do jobs.

Dh hasn’t got an English O Level but managed A levels, a law degree and 2 professional qualifications

If he left school now his prospects would be working in an Amazon Warehouse.

Ds was top of his trade course. He needed one more level to be able to qualify.
Then the entry requirements changed and he can now only do level 1 courses because he hasn’t got an English GCSE.
He started again doing a different level 1 course and he finished a years worth of questions in one 2 hour lesson.
He wasn’t really learning anything so he walked out.
Ds is good with his hands. He just can’t do English

I think that so many jobs requiring a university degree when it isn't actually needed is holding back mobility.

I went to university and understood the subject. The only reason I failed was that I cannot write essays. That's all that matters at university, not your knowledge, but can you write a 40,000 word essay? Most subject at university will never require you to do that on the job.

*GrumpyTerrier
Some examples:

• My mother begged me not to go to Cambridge when I was eligible and the school was encouraging it, because she felt it would be so posh that she would never be able to visit or feel comfortable with me. So I didn't go.

*

Same thing here.
I excelled at school and was accepted into a good university to study medicine.
My parents talked me out of it- saying I would feel uncomfortable/wouldn't fit in because I was too lower class.
I really wanted to go but they talked me out of it.

@eeek88

It’s all relative. Surely being aspirational means you want to outdo the achievements of your parents. If your father’s a QC and you’re just a lowly solicitor by the time your career ends then relatively speaking you haven’t done that well. But if, like one of my friends, your mum’s been to prison 16 times and you only go once, use the time for reflection and when you’re released you get a job, then you’ve done very well relatively speaking.

not always.....I see aspirational as wider than one's parents....and some of it is about choices..the QC's child might prefer to be a really good landscape gardener. Its the making the choice with confidence and putting your whole heart into ti that is imprtant I would say that the recidivist mother's daughter has done amazingly well but that also she is likely to be the kind of parent who will have aspirations for her children.

No expert, but DH and I both were v poor as kids, and both ended up in high paid professional careers - the thing that made the difference with both of us, was that our parents were highly ambitious for us and school was seen as helping out with education, not leading it. They had an attitude of “That standard may be good enough for your classmates/teachers, but it is not good enough for you, you are capable of more.” Parents took us to libraries, checked out textbooks with us, and coached us through them as best they could. (Even easier now with internet!) I wasn’t allowed a part time job, I was expected to study hard every night and get straight As, which I did. They pushed me to apply to Oxford despite no one from my school having gone there in decades (Oxford was thrilled to have an application from my dodgy school) and then when I had a wobble and wanted a more fun less work degree elsewhere, parents talked me into accepting the Oxford offer. After that everything became easy as companies fought to recruit Oxbridge students.

Top GCSE& Alevel grades lead to top uni which leads to top job. The hard bit, and the bit where many poor families fail, is not realising early enough that the teachers are merely there to help out, they may do a crap job, and they are more interested in helping struggling students reach average than helping ambitious students. I know parents who don’t teach their kids anything and shrug and say “that’s the school’s job.” Their kids are already screwed academically 😢

The effort from the parents makes all the difference. Be your child’s motivator, researcher, advocate, tutor, coach, and protect them from distractions (while keeping them sane lol) and they’ll do great.

(Ps if you are on v low salary then do look into bursaries at private schools, there is a lot of funding available if you look in the right places, and that goes for uni fees too…)