To not pay £480 to fix dd's friend's phone

[FarangGirl]

Dd (14 yo) was with her friends and accidentally hit a friend in the arm. He had his phone in his hand and dropped it. Apparently it will cost £480 to repair!!! His parents want us to pay this. I think this is ridiculous. First, friend dropped the phoen, it wasn't like dd was using it. Second. If you're going to give your kid a stupidly expensive phoen, you should insure it and have a bullet proof cover.
Aibu?

@Itsalmostanaccessory

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3367017-to-not-pay-for-friend-to-get-her-phone-fixed-after-i-smashed-it

The one I'm thinking of is older but I cant find it. Here's one from the smasher's perspective. Majority of responses telling her to pay or at least pay half.

I'd also have been willing to have paid 40 pounds too and I wouldn't have bothered posting about it. But that's not what they're asking for. They're asking for 12 times as much for essentially the same thing! Hence the reason why the majority of posters have said no way would they pay 480 pounds in the same situation or even 240.

Why is mumsnet OK and reasonable when the posters agree with your point but an echo chamber when they do not? Linking to previous posts to prove your point kind of undermines your whole argument as to why you're in the minority here. Different situation.

@FarangGirl

It is not about the amount. It is actually really simple.
If you break something, you pay to fix it.
If you have a hand in breaking something, you pay half the bill.

I work in an area where every day I see people do everything they can do avoid taking responsibility. I see it in here all the time, and it is so much worse when the person on the other end is a man.

You're doing everything you can to blame the parents for something your kid caused.

She broke the phone. All this, "it's there fault for buying it" iis just bullshit. People are becoming more and more selfish and its disgusting.

She broke it. When you break something, you replace it. In this case, its 50/50 because they didnt put it in a case but she still knocked into him because she didnt look at what she was doing and she should have. Have you actually told her that?

@Itsalmostanaccessory

Interesting that my dd's friend's parents haven't heard of your madeup code given that they are insisting we pay it all.

This isn't a man, it's a 14 year old boy. Trying to bring sexism into this is totally ridiculous!

Of course the amount involved matters. That is why most posters said the woman should pay in the earlier thread when it was 40 pounds and not when it's 480 pounds.

If tables were turned (and they have been ), I wouldn't be chasing anyone for money. I would accept responsibility for having given a teen a stupidly expensive phone, not protected it and not insured it. You might not agree about the partition of responsibility but, as you can see, most posters on this thread agree (and, no, it's not because it's a boy and not a girl - now you're clutching at straws as you have no other explanation why people thought 40 pounds would be reasonable to pay but not 480 pounds).

Anyyway, i'm not paying half. In agreement with or in excess of the vast majority of the opinions on this thread, I'm going to offer what I think is reasonable and no more. And I think that's fair and totally fine. If they don't like it, too bad. In fact, if the boy keeps on giving my dd shit about this, I won't pay anything at all.

@FarangGirl

In the other thread, the originall poster was quite clear that she couldnt afford to pay for it. And what was the response? Oh yeah, "you broke it, you pay for it."

Just not when it's a teenage boy with an expensive phone.

The parents asked for the full amount. The ficking logical thing to do is say, "we'll pay half or we will.pay your insurance excess but we're not paying it all as you could have mitigated this with a phone case."

I dont understand what you find so alien about the concept of "you broke it, you pay for it."

It doesnt matter if it was an accident. Thoughtlessness has the same affect as malice here. Your daughter didnt pay attention to what she was doing and she broke her friend's property. You should, morally, offer half the money.

But you're not going to because that's how people behave now. Nothing is their fault and even it if is, someone else must be more at fault so they're not taking any part in rectifying it.

@woody87

I can't believe some of the answers on this thread.

OP I would tell DD's friend and his parents to, excuse my French, FUCK RIGHT OFF.

Same!

No one said she was thoughtless or careless though. She was behaving reasonably. The boy was equally careless by holding the phone in his hand so loosely while walking. Plus no case. Plus no insurance. Quite a few more strikes against him in the responsibility stakes.

The main difference between that thread you linked to and this one is the amount. I am 100% sure the responses would be the same if it were a teenage girl. Most posters are not OMG he has testicles, you must not pay. They are OMG 480 pounds, WTF?! You just don't like that they don't agree with you and you clearly believe you have a superior moral view of the world.

Moving around, turning yourself, waving your arms as you talk are all things you do whilst paying attention to your surroundings.

If you hit someone then you weren't thinking about your surroundings. You were showing a lack of thought. That's what she did.

The amount doesnt matter. Morally, if you break something, you pay to replace it. If you contribute to breaking something then you split the bill.

But we have become a lot more selfish as a society and a lot more, "but it's more his fault than mine." As evidenced by his parents asking you to pay it all and you saying you're not paying.

You're as bad as each other. Both your kids contributed to breaking it. Both of you should pay to fix it.

Your daughter needs to understand that sometimes she will be around expensive things. If she talks with her hands then she will need to pay attention to what they are hitting.

@Itsalmostanaccessory

Moving around, turning yourself, waving your arms as you talk are all things you do whilst paying attention to your surroundings.

If you hit someone then you weren't thinking about your surroundings. You were showing a lack of thought. That's what she did.

The amount doesnt matter. Morally, if you break something, you pay to replace it. If you contribute to breaking something then you split the bill.

But we have become a lot more selfish as a society and a lot more, "but it's more his fault than mine." As evidenced by his parents asking you to pay it all and you saying you're not paying.

You're as bad as each other. Both your kids contributed to breaking it. Both of you should pay to fix it.

Your daughter needs to understand that sometimes she will be around expensive things. If she talks with her hands then she will need to pay attention to what they are hitting.

You keep saying morally like it's one fixed explanation.

You may feel morally obligated to pay. I wouldn't. Not a penny.

Your morals do not have to almighty with everyone else.

Had to put my tuppence worth in here as my DD was telling me yesterday how her clumsy boyfriend twice knocked her phone out of her hand yesterday. Iphone 13 - both times it hit the ground; no damage. Point is - it happens, and if a phone has a good case and one of those glass protective screens it will survive.

It is no-one's fault; accidents happen; that's what insurance is for and if they don't have insurance, they shouldn't have bought their child an expensive phone!!

If everyone paid for accidents, then the world would be a fucked up place.

The parents should have had insurance, it’s their lack of responsibility to blame not the child who was just talking to her friends!

I'm happy with my decision and my morals.

@FarangGirl

Why bother asking then?

[quote Giraffesandbottoms]@FarangGirl

Why bother asking then?[/quote]
My decision was formed based on the majority input on this thread. Hadnt decided when I posted. Now I'm confident its right one, the same as or exceeding the majority of posters.

OP I think your DD’s situation would be the perfect topic for a high school ethics class

@Itsalmostanaccessory Granted, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but you are coming across a little, ahem, hectoring

OP, forgive me if I read this and it didn’t register, but have you called your local apple store to enquire about authorised repair locations near you (often “authorised” is more than just local apple store) and how much a repair would be? Getting this independently may shed some light on whether the quote given to you is inflated or not.

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

If everyone paid for accidents, then the world would be a fucked up place.

The parents should have had insurance, it’s their lack of responsibility to blame not the child who was just talking to her friends!

You think the world would be a fucked up place if people replaced, or contributed to the cost of, the items they break?

I've heard some bullshit before but this might win.

kids play and things break, it happens.
i'd tell them to fuck off

You think the world would be a fucked up place if people replaced, or contributed to the cost of, the items they break?

I think the world would be a fucked up place if people didn't bother to take responsibility and protect their items adequately, or insure them, expecting other people to foot the bill. When it could have easily been avoided by purchasing a proper case and getting out phone insurance.

'Did they not have it in a sturdy protective case? When you give your kid an expensive phone, you get a good case to go with it with a screen protector.'

We got a case for our son and he refused to use it. Dropped it and screen cracked. Totally on him.

Unless she was deliberately throwing it around, frankly it's on his parents for letting him take something so expensive out of the house uninsured.
I really don't get this at all. Ours was s £108 Moto G, same as mine, perfectly good and a quarter of the price. I would view damage to expensive phones in the say way as designer clothes or trainers; a bit daft if you expect them to be kept in pristine condition by kids/teenagers.

Nowadays, phones are objects of everyday use. Any item of this size and shape being handled as often as they are would risk accidents of being dropped, slipped out, knocked off etc. By teenagers especially as their usage is tenfold and with lesser care. If you decide to buy an expensive phone you must take it into account. Hence the insurance. You don’t insure a beach ball as it is easily affordable to replace. You need to insure an expensive item like a phone as accidental damage is very likely and because it is very difficult to prove liability. This should be stressed - it is very difficult to prove liability. It is therefore reckless not to insure a 1K phone as there is no legal or moral ground to expect to be paid in case of such accidental damage.

@PainterMummy

OP, forgive me if I read this and it didn’t register, but have you called your local apple store to enquire about authorised repair locations near you (often “authorised” is more than just local apple store) and how much a repair would be? Getting this independently may shed some light on whether the quote given to you is inflated or not.

That is a very good idea…. And I would do that before you offer to pay anything. You could also say to the store that you’ve been quoted £480 and are a bit taken back… Once you know how much it actually will cost you can proceed to offer if you feel you need to. Personally, any idiotic parent who gives their kid an iPhone 12 and doesn’t insure or protect it deserves everything they get!

What have they said to your offer?

Leaving aside for a moment, the responsibility of the OP to fund the repair I'd say the most pressing considerations are:

1. £480 is a large amount of money to hand over without any evidence of what exactly it's being used for because it's not appropriate to expect someone to transfer that amount of money to a minors bank account just on their say so and that is all it is right now.

1. There is a responsibility on the part of the friend/his parents to specify exactly what's broken other than the cracked screen her DD witnessed beyond the description "other things" and proof of a quotation, or better still multiple quotations. This has not been forthcoming. No proof, no explanation, no cash.

1. Its perfectly reasonable to question the red flags here.

• Its "interesting" that the unsubstantiated repair bill is virtually identical to the cost of buying a refurbished version of the same phone.

• It's also "odd" that despite a world wide warranty this phone does not have one, but an very expensive repair from Apple is somehow "necessary" despite there being nothing to invalidate. Preferred maybe, but not necessary and it's reasonable point to argue that it's not appropriate to ask someone to substantially fund your preference if a cheaper suitable alternative can be found (such as a repair shop that offers a warranty on the repair).

Upshot it's all very well banging the drum of moral superiority/outrage that the OP should pay up in full but I'd suggest there's quite a few things that need to be clarified before she commits to offering anything.

@Turkey98

You should have paid already - you are completely liable. If they take you to court, you will lose.

Just think about the arguments you are making and others are on this thread and think about the common case of car 'accidents'. Accidents happen, but there are consequences for those who cause them.

i) The cause of the event is clear, although clearly wouldn't be taken any further, your DD assaulted their friend, and as a direct consequence of this the phone was damaged.

ii) Insurance is the choice of the phone owner and covers their mistakes - whether they have insurance and whether they claim is down to them. Even if they do claim on their insurance, the insurance company can claim again whose fault it is - i.e. your DD (and you).

iii) You don't get any say in how expensive an item you choose to cause damage to. Same way as if you hit a Ferrai, you can't say you shouldn't have such an expensive car - you are responsible for any damage you cause from an event you start if such damage is reasonably foreseeable.

iv) The friend does not have to use a case if they don't want to - they only have to do that if they want to minimise damage they cause - they don't have to do that before the accident - only minimise their loss after the accident.

v) They are entitled to a repair to get it into the same state - using original parts - and these must be carried out according to manufacturers standards - in essence, Apple authorised repairers must perform the repairs using Apple parts (otherwise Apple won't support it).

vi) It doesn't matter if they didn't have a tight grip on the phone as long as they wouldn't have dropped it anyway. If you crash into a car and the car then hits another, you are liable for the entire pile-up, not just the car you originally hit. There is no comeback by saying they should have left more space so if someone hit them they wouldn't have hit the other car.

If you said anything like you were not paying to me, I would rent another phone (of same type) and charge you for that as well - you are 100% liable and should have paid the same day.

Stop blaming the person who suffered the loss, and accept your DD caused the accident and is fully responsible. Pay up before they take your DD to court.

This is all moot because you first need to establish ownership of the phone.

If the parents in question cannot produce a receipt for said phone, then legally speaking none of your "points" are applicable.

Additionally,

It would also explain the odd comments around the phone being out of the warranty period. If the parents got the phone from an external source (not bought directly by them) it is unlikely that they would have a proper warranty or insurance.

In fact, I would have to say that this whole story sets of alarm bells as it looks suspiciously like they are trying to replace an uninsured phone from a dodgy out of UK source, with a UK-bought phone with all the bells and whistles (hence the £480 price tag).

OP:

Ask to see the receipt. If they stall or say they lost it, then you have your answer. Do not pay a dime.

To Turkey:

A judge in the UK would laugh you out of court if you tried to claim damages in small claims court without being able to establish proof of ownership via a receipt.